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Lots of opinions going around about the risk and reward involving the PvP caravan system in the upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation. Do attackers need more risk? Are defenders just screwed? I have my own opinion.
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I like the video since you have the same opinion as me lol.
Love it! Get glad I'm not alone. Everyone needs to slow their roll man. System will be fine as is for sure.
Caravan defenders have so many natural advantages that many ppl arent thinking about such as knowledge, preperation and the ability for subtergfuge.
Intrepid can add more risk to attackers. When is a game fair… well some games aren't fair but they can strive for some kind of a balance. Even though it might be impossible it is still something to strive for. At least to me…. great video Roar =)
Perhaps the biggest risk-reward of Ashes of Creation was Steven deciding to create it in the first place.
I like the proposal. 🙂
Great Video! I have similar opinions, Games Like Tarkov and Dungeonborne see success in full loot pvp where the most geared player risks way more than timmy with 5-7 yet players till go out with the high risk gear. I think caravans will operate with a similar philosophy.
innitially I thought that there wasn't enough reason for hesitation to attack a caravan but after hearing you and Narc givve your opinions i'm now on the stance of wait and see how it turns out in alpha two. This is emergant gameplay which is damn near impossible to predict how players will react. I am sure this will need rebalanceing in one way or the other so it doesn't matter the state of it in the alpha, as long as the true release of the game is balanced.
it's just a vocal minority that seems to think their opinions of a system that WASNT FULLY SHOWN or even presented, was just a play test to see if the mechanics of this part of it works, matter.
People seem to think these days that everything they want will be put into a game or it's trash when I can guarantee 90% of the complainers won't play past 2 weeks/1 month. They are the type to find a flaw in legit everything and want to ruin everything for other people cause they will never get their trash dream game.
Does attacking flag you as a bandit tho? Like in other mmos have karma systems/jail cant go into normal towns etc type systems would be interesting
I can see basicly every strong guild can destroy you with 0 risk its not ok for sure!Feedback is important,but first need to test it in alpha 2!
Great point on who caravans are actually for.
Your attack risk has a fatal flaw. The attackers can just be dicks and open all the boxes, then carry what fits in their pockets. The Defenders still lose their ass, and the attackers havent risked a fucking thing.
What's the risk for attackers?…..Hmmmm
What's the bounty hunter system?….Hmmmm
Who usually has bounties on their head?….robbers, highwaymen, pirates….right?
Hmmmm….lemme think about that.
meanwhile Silkroad Players leaning back excited to kick wow noobs ass … hahahahah
Tbh I feel it little unbalanced how it is right now, but I conform with a reputation system that basically gives you bandit reputation from the node the cargo went. This bad reputation doesn't have to do anything,is just a way of players to know which gilds and players are messing with our node economy.
The risk for the attackers is death penalty as well as political risk. A group destroys a caravan and now have to get their own caravan there to load the loot and now move it to their city. The original owners put out a call to their fellow citizens and guild leaders for help in getting their items back. Now, the thieves get hit with five times their number and are zerged. The good are recovered and now have a massive army protecting them to their next destination. The theives now have a war declared on them and their city. Their city gets destroyed. The theives are known to the victorious city and are driven away by groups of players following them around making it difficult for the thief to harvest materials or complet quests. The theives eventual move far away to live in a new area. In their new city, whenever they hear people talk about actions against other guilds and towns, they tell their sad tale about what happened to them.
This story spreads across the game through social media. Now guild leaders throughout the game know that you better think through all your actions as all the consequences may not be readily apparent.
Attackers risk
1 = Waiting on a caravan route for hours and no one takes that route hence waste of time u could be earning coin
2 = Social deterioration if one clan constantly hitting caravans in an area they become that area number 1 enemy so chances are more people will guild war u and so on
Also attacing caravans in your node base area is a bad idea too since it reduces ur the speed ur node progresses so there also travel time involded aswell to get to enemy or hostile area's
PvP will almost always be unfair. Just like real life, fun is about encountering situations when you won't always have the upper hand.
When the attackers succeed and pass to be the defenders, there is no risk of losing their cargo, you know why, cuz that is not their cargo, they didn't put hundreds of hours gathering the resource for the cargo, they just lose the caravan it self and 15 min of stealing it in the first place, is not about fairness is about balance, as you said if there is to much risk for the attackers they wont attack and you will have a boring caravan system, well the opposite is also true, if there is to much risk for the defenders there wont be caravans run at all
2:53 Who would even use the caravan system aside from the wealthier players in the economy anyway? I stopped halfway so idk if what you said in terms of "the other half of the caravan just fizzles away" is meant as thought the caravan owner keeps that portion of loot from the failed caravan or if its just a complete loss of resources on the caravan owners end. I dont even care about the pvp mercs or bandits, from what it sounds like the caravan system will primarily be used by larger guilds and streamers unless the cost of owning a caravan is on the lower end. Either way I'm not too confident about how thats going to play out, although I do look forward to the new/revamped pvp/pve systems AOC is introducing.
Caravans are going to play an important role in the world development aspect of Ashes. Do you think the risk should be split 50/50 for attackers and defenders?
It's Grand Theft Caravan. It's going to be a delicate balancing act. The only downside is that people are going to think bad of you? Right now it looks like, "Yo ho, Yo ho, I pirates life for me."
Why would anyone try to gather materials and transport them when its so much easier to steal them?
I don't get the ”attackers don't risk anything argument”. They are paying with there time. They could have stayed at home crafting at the freehold, doing dungeons or just gone fishing. Look at the alternative cost, what they could have done instead. Instead they are giving up these alternative activities, to provide PvP content to other players.
Also, they might not even find a caravan to gank, or just die ganking it.
It seems like people take finishing caravan routes for granted. If you cant muster the defense or choose a sneaky enough route, what makes you think you deserve a successfull run?
Look at Eve Online, there are tons of gate campers there killing of haulers and other ship all the time. People get upset there as well, but it does not matter.
/sigh
The current caravan system is poorly thought out. It doesn't make sense that you need to destroy the caravan in order to loot them and it st*pid broken that players can just summon a new caravan from anywhere. In it's current state, being the bandits/raiders/attackers is far too overpowered.
It's actually really simple to fix the caravan system though (things will make sense as you read each point):
1. completely remove ability to summon caravans. If attackers want to steal more loot than they can carry, they should either have their own caravan stashed near their ambush location or they need to wait until someone drives over a caravan (however long that will take). no caravan = less loot.
2. The caravan being ambushed can be stolen once all defenders are killed (the caravan no longer needs to be destroyed to be looted)
3. Caravan HP determines how many items it will contain (100% HP = all loot, 50%HP = 3/4 loot, etc – values only meant for reference)
Finally, the most important step to balance the system. IMO scrap attacking caravans without this…
4. the caravan provides all defenders with some passive buff, meaning attackers can choose to destroy caravan making it easier for them to kill the defenders, but they get less loot – OR – attackers can choose to avoid damaging caravan making it harder for them to kill defenders, but they end up with more loot.
so people never played archage before?