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Ganking will result in a ton of people quitting. Ashes of Creation is an amazing game I’ve been emotionally and literally invested into since 2020 and I’m a HUGE fan so this video isn’t out of the blue cause I’ve been talking about this nonstop on discord for sooo long.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Ashes of Creation PvP Concerns
0:48 Why I’m doing this video
1:52 The pvp concern
3:24 Why this upsets players
4:49 How to address this fairly
6:57 What would be impossible on pvp servers
9:10 If people want pvp that bad why be afraid of pve servers
source
I'm INCREDIBLY excited for Ashes of Creation but I'm going to be serious, if there are NO PvE servers I see this making many people incredibly INCREDIBLY unhappy! I strongly advocate for pve servers even if it's only one or two.
I will never have enough time to be successful in a forced pvp game. New World was bad enough.
Some MMOS have had "not bad" pvp, but no MMO has ever had great pvp. Because of that, it's always been a feature that doesn't appeal to everyone. Mandatory PVP is something that only appeals to one type of player and games with systems like this find their player numbers distilled down to a certain few after a short amount of time.
I love how the people pushing so hard for pvp are pushing away any audience the game might have been interested by calling them carebears and casuals. Like if I want to play PvP I’m not playing an MMO this genre just doesn’t work for PvP as it’s main focus, I might as well go play a different game.
No. Game is being built around pvp. Get over it. It's about time we have an actual game with risk. Has nothing to do with griefing
Didn't New World start with the idea of massive PvP focus but went quite far away from it because the actual group that likes this is a rather small niche?
aoc has been starcitizen levels of bad from the get go, save yourself
Also was incredibly excited albeit a bit hesitant to put my eggs in the AoC basket. If they stick with Forced Open World PvP? I’ll watch some YouTube videos about it and keep a healthy distance from the game
Creating systems that enable people to actively and purposefully ruin others game experience always feels like a waste of time and attracts a type of player I don’t want to engage with
If they want to make PvP the focus of their game then good for them, but it more or less will be the reason I never touch it unless they introduce an option or server that allows me to turn it off.
Yeah the moment I heard how pvp works in this game was the moment I stopped being interested for a number of reasons – the first being what you mentioned in the beginning: Griefers. I have zero desire to deal with someone like your younger self ruining my enjoyment of a game just because they can. I don't want to have to "hire a bodyguard" either while I'm just trying to gather some apples. I play games nowadays to have fun, not to get overly frustrated because of someone else.
But the other big reason is because I'm too competitive. I used to be big in pvp games, but began to realize playing them made me into something I didn't like. I found myself being toxic, yelling at teammates, yelling at friends, yelling at myself, literally breaking a monitor out of sheer rage, the whole nine yards. There was one Overwatch match where my team won and I was still so angry I had to take a walk and blow off steam. When I calmed down, I felt so disgusted with myself that I swore off pvp games. Now it's pve/coop/single player for me, and my gaming has been alot healthier ever since.
ALL that said, if they really do create pve-centered servers, I may give this game another chance at my attention. It does look good, but I don't feel like dealing with griefers and I refuse to get into that pvp mindset again.
Forced pvp doesn't work for standard MMO's. The game has to have a way for you to avoid it, or it will only ever be a small game.
really wish this was on ps4. the tulnar look great and the dual class system looks gr8 but I only got a decidely not mmo-worthy laptop ugh
Its actually good thing when devs actually trying to do their own thing and not trying to appeal everyone miserably.
Welp, my hype for this game went from 100 to 0.
Yea when I saw the pvp my hype went from 100 to 0 real quick. I am just reminded of all those terrible open world pvp games most notably BDO and I dont want to work all day to come home to enjoy the game only to be ganked by someone who never logs off.
5 people who want to do different things. If one of them wants to PvP then PvP it is for as long as that person wants it. If you are ok with any other activity being subordinate then it is fine. I'm not interested in the slightest as I really like being able to do whatever happens to take my fancy and have to count on getting "permission" from every other player in the vicinity first.
Open PvP is a disease passed on by latent psychopaths telling a story. According to them every fight is some epic dual in a Kurosawa film, and that the feeling of loss of dying and losing your equipment and character is some extreme nirvana state reserved for Tibetan monks and the epic open pvp chads. The reality is its an awful system that assholes simply scout out the best way to grief people in, and the second the game is eventually forced into fixing those problems the griefers move on, having already killed any interest from a wider audience. I was excited for Ashes of Creation myself but this news is a death sentence and I'm not going to waste my time on it.
Pretty much.
They have all these AMAZING systems like their gathering/crafting and node system. It's like Eve Online in a fantasy setting.
…and then they have INSANELY pro-ganker rule sets.
If you're Green (not PvP flagged) YOU LOSE MORE experience and gathering/crafting mats if you are ganked.
If you're trying to do a dungeon, the enemy can attack Green players like tanks or healers and just not "finish them", letting the NPCs do it. With non-instanced dungeons, that sounds terrible.
You are STRONGLY encouraged to go Purple and fight back, and the penalties for being Red (killer) only are harmful IF PEOPLE ARE FIGHTING YOU. Supposedly, this encourages people to hire bodyguards and stuff. But I can speak from experience playing EVE Online, in practice, no one is going to pay other people to protect them. People in guilds just have their own PvP overwatch, and people not in big guilds just quit the game.
I understand having PvP zones or wanting open world PvP, but when you don't have instanced dungeons and you have players DROPPING LOOT for the PvP players that kill them AND you have more stiff punishments (drops and xp loss) for people who are Green/non-combatants, and yes, exp loss WHEN killed by a PvP ganker? That just is beyond stupid.
Been following this game for a while and I love all their (non-PvP) systems, and even the semi-organized PvP of castle and node sieges. But if this PvP system goes live, I don't see myself playing this game much or at all, and I have a strong feeling it'll be as niche as EVE Online. Except since it likely costs a lot more to develop and maintain (Eve is famously sustainable), then I can't see them being sustainable or having a large population for very long.
I'm surprised this is news to people. This is the exact reason I didn't buy into the hype when the game was kickstarted however many years ago. For the node system to work as they described it has to be an open PvP game. How else could you grow your city without taking the space from your neighbors? However once one group of people can destroy the progress of others game is dead for a large number of players.
Wait, what?? you mean we can PK player at FF14 in future?? THAT WILL BE GREAT!!!!
THIS is from Steve:
First and foremost, PvP in Ashes exists in both opt-in systems and events, as well as our open world flagging system. And while it is true that I enjoyed and took much inspiration from games like Lineage 2, we have innovated and adapted our approach to Ashes’ flagging system in order to further disincentivize griefing while still allowing the system to keep risk relevant in the open world setting. The overwhelming majority of player’s experiences with PvP in Ashes will be through consensual systems like caravans, sieges, wars, the open sea and other events. Players will make a choice to participate in those systems or not. And if they choose to participate there will be significant rewards for success. – Steven Sharif
PvP in Ashes of Creation exists in both opt-in systems and events as well as open-world PvP with a flagging (and corruption) system.
In the open world, when competing for the scarcity of resources, raids, dungeons and or hunting grounds, an important element of risk vs reward is introduced through our flagging system. Players must be aware of their surroundings and the reputation of other players who may be in proximity. The flagging system is intended to always provide an element of risk in all settings, but also architected to ensure that griefing and PK’ing is almost never worth it. The subtleties of this system are complex, which is of course why it will require considerable testing and feedback. – Steven Sharif
I really hope there are PVE servers too because I have been with Intrepid since early 2017 crowdfunding! Steve has said he is open to change so we will have to see! 😉
Every game mode, that lets you influence the experience of someone else without their consent, is bad. I dont care, it the Ashes' creators have planned this "punishment" consequence, which downgrades all your traits to crap after killing a low level player: the damage has already been done, that player is dead and probably didnt enjoy the experience. Open World PvP is only possible if you make PvP servers – then all players know what they're getting into. If you make the whole game open PvP… well, then many people wont even give it a try. If thats what you want, go ahead.
There is much confusion about PvP/PvE being spread by content creators who do not understand the "whole flagging system" and the "whole PvP" system". Before making a Ashes of Creation video, READ THE AoC WIKI !!!!
Forced pvp is an immediate game is dead to me. Never enjoyed pvp really and tbh don't get the appeal.
I originally liked the idea of AoC but then they announced PVX. And I immediately put it on my do not touch until you can turn off pvp list.
Why would you ever jump into an amzing beautiful world just to fight other players. I can literally do that in any other multiplayer game.
Just look at all the MMO's from the last few years that focus to much on pvp, they are struggling or are gone. I am sure Ashes will do great at the start like New world did cause of the Hype, after a few months most people will be gone. These devs never learn.