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This is just a bad policy.
Good video brother! Someone on the comments touched on a great point. This is alpha, people should not be outright banned for interacting with exploited assets or systems. There should be a consequence for those who abuse it, but it’s a testing phase, these things are meant to and will come up.
press that like button so its goes to more ppl as he said if u are a normal player u would never be unbanned
The "ban wave" was a joke. It was a false flag to make people feel like they did something. Anyone who put in a ticket got their characters back.
This shows how everyone at intrepid never played any multiplayer game ever. It shows in their development, in their ideas, their attitude and their behaviour at everything they do.
Add this to the list of things for why i will probably never even give this game a go when it is finished.
If Intrepid were this strict on punishing exploits upon release, when everything is smooth and ironed out. I could sort of jive with that.
But the game is in Alpha for Christ sake, there's bound to be bugs and anomalies. What about if someone benefits from a glitch in the game completely by accident? I imagine they'd still get punished.
Had guys have their lvl 9 alts deleted but not their 25s. some had their mains deleted but some have been over turned. Intrepid has no logs or any evidence when asked, they say they are checking the logs but cannot produce the logs.
not to mention it took them 5 WEEKS to deal out punishment.
How they handle this is the line in the sand for me. This honestly deserves a town hall style meeting with Steven and the CS team. I will never invest 1,000s of hours into a game and a community if this is the directive to the CS team from the top.
Who cares, they restored his character.
The end.
I do think this is a slight overreaction. Im sure we're all aware that intrepid is a new team, still trying to iron out the kinks in their systems that may flag as false positives, as well as their CS team not relaying the message back to Kelu properly. Duping has proven to quite literally kill games outright both systematically and financially, so punishments for those wrongdoers should be very harsh. In the event that false positives are done, which is inevitable, we just have to trust that intrepid can do their due diligence in their investigation to reinstate the players that did nothing wrong, and compensate them for the inconvenience created. It works the same in the real world with transcations.
Another based take. Totally agree with your point of view on this subject. Why is it the players responsibility to monitor others cheating?
first off Keludar said it himself … he took "preorders" where he accepted gold in advance…. that was what got him banned.. .who is to say he didn't buy gold? his word ? yea right here is 1000g make me a mount or 20 doesn't matter. your getting flagged for buying gold. And in many cases, just because you sold a mount for 1000g also wouldn't make it legit. its a common practice for gold sellers to buy worthless items just to cover the transaction. I would have banned him as well. If he not guilty he should have know better to take a large amount of gold from anyone. who is to say he wasn't making mounts for the gold sellers to resell?
A friend of mine got his account banned. When asked what he did he got a default reply of " you were involved in exploiting". No further explanation, no idea what he did that was considered exploiting, just bang $120 down the drain. Absolutely terrible.
It's seam they need to work on their trade system alot more. Like turning it into a quest syetem that allows players to create and recive quests to gather, trade, and sell for pre-order items or good. This way they can keep the trade fair for the buyer and the seller with the quest system. It will also keep track of trades and scan the items to see if it was made by a duplicate cheat and let the players know and cancel the quest.
I agree that the standard should not be strict liability for getting ill-gotten gains. But I don't think claimed ignorance should be an absolute defense either. If their standard is negligence–that someone knew or reasonably should have known that they were benefitting from someone else's exploit–that would be consistent with the rest of their policy around exploits.
He's in an unusual situation, but we don't know all the evidence they were looking at. They may have had evidence that, if we looked at it, we'd say "yep dude absolutely should have known that xyz was a benefit from exploiters." We don't have details from them, and they understandably won't give us details because they don't want to give willful exploiters a handbook on how to avoid detection.
I think "courtesy" is an appropriate word. They should not create a precedent for appeals in an alpha, an the word "courtesy" makes it clear that this is not the usual. Review is costly in work hours and undermines the finality of their decision, which also costs work hours. Players already know they might lose their toon for unfair reasons–that's part of being in an Alpha.
I get that there is tension with fairness, and at a personal level I'm happy for the player–but I don't know that I disagree with the language they used and I'd need to know more before I determined whether they did something wrong.
Honestly, they did our boy Narc nasty. I've stopped playing for phase 2, unless they launch some actual content with the rogue class I don't think I will touch again until phase 3. I bought into Alpha 2 thinking I'd be testing key elements of the game, but instead all I am doing is grinding mob to get to level 25 and gank noobs along with salty clans and drama, while the actual testing of new things is held on a private test realm that I don't have access to? Nevermind the missing content in the desert biomes, all I am seeing from intrepid is a social media tantrum from the head dev and a lackluster exploit busting program. May as well call this New World 2.
First mistake was banning him with a policy the player cant know if they are complying with. The rest of the mistakes are self owns by one specific customer support person, reflecting poorly not just on his department but the organization
Intrepid email suggests that he accepted a large amount of gold that means he was accepting exploited gold gain an unfair advantage over other players, that is the reason for the ban! Next time don't accept crazy amount of gold or buy gold from other players!
its a scam, you have to be low iq to think otherwise
On your next video can you make the music louder please ? 🙏
he got reinstated. for every one of him that is legit, there are dozens who are stooges. lost some respect for you, sir.
Glad this got reversed and that the team looked into it further to resolve it.
This is an example of early days tools and I hope the team takes it to heart and adapts.
Banning for trade without shown intent just makes me not want to trade with people.
Definitely shouldn't be like that.
Innocent players getting caught in the crossfire is a really bad look. Especially the character deletion, and not just the gold. It does raise up the question of what do you do when someone launders a ton of exploited gold through the economy? Intrepid does have a very granular system, so they can follow the trail. You can of course ban the original char where the trail comes from, but what of the gold that circulated after? I've heard of some exploiters that laundered gold through many characters, using the market stalls, and Intrepid still managed to catch them, which is good. But what of the gold that landed in innocent players' pockets? Do you then leave the gold in the game, or do you remove the gold? At least Intrepid has a testing grounds for their tracking/banning system now in early alpha, because banning/deleting innocent players is definitely an extremely bad look.
PS: One note that I believe is important and credit where credit is due: it's not true that regular Joe nobody doesn't get undeleted. I personally know a legit player, a random nobody in-game, that unknowingly got traded duped gold 7 times. He messaged Steven, they looked into it, and he got undeleted. As you said, that probably won't be possible when the game is huge. But since they're very early on in their ban-system development, it's good to see they're thoroughly investigating everyone, not just big names.
Of course we all want to live in a perfect world where every cheater is banned and every ban is a cheater. 100% caught with 0% false positives. But that's never going to happen.
PICK ONE:
Over-correction is bad for a handful of players and does affect the game for some.
Under-correction affects the game for everyone. The whole MMORPG industry, really.
The best system is one where it's easy to trigger flags using less information (even innocent players) but then the appeals process is more forgiving and pulls in more granular information to help make a final determination. Real Money Traders aren't going to put up a good appeal. Dupers aren't going to put up good appeals. Some of the very guilty may not even bother.
This also allows you to use how many times the player has been flagged because there are more initial flags.
Wait : pre-paid sales ??? Like people pre-paying one week in advance for a mount ? Sounds suspicious. Pre-paying an expensive mount one week in advance is BS
I see your point. I am REALLY happy that they are fighting cheaters. However, I have also been falsely banned in games before and it sucks to be in that position. Probably somewhat ruined the game for this guy even during release, or strongly soured it.
Such system can never be 100% fair. Majority cheaters are getting caught at this moment, should be focus. Only solution is to remove ban/delete system and eventually surrender to cheaters.
As always "this is alpha….".
The email that the player received is extremely wrong in so many ways. I don't want to repeat what you said in the video, cause you said it perfectly, but god damn, this Intrepid company looks incredibly immature right now. I hope they improve on this, because I've been spamming AoC videos cause I'm about to play it on the weekend, but I'm finding all these things that are turning me off.
I was 'warned' for receiving 27 fraudulent gold in a Legendary Giant Bluebell trade. I have never exploited in any game I have played.
step 1: load gun
step 2: aim at foot
step 3: sneeze
Just keep in mind that he did not trade something for that gold. He just received the gold as downpayment