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Intrepid Studios put out an amazing livestream in December, so much so that I’m still in the process of digging out the really good parts. One of the things that came up was their draw call solution so they can optimize combat, specifically PVP combat so they can reach the 500 vs 500 goal they wanted to reach years ago. A lot of people didn’t pick up on the draw call thing due to the fact it was buried by the larger Unreal Engine 5 announcement, and they didn’t realize it had been talked about in September either.
While the Unreal Engine announcement was amazing, I think this gem of technology is something that has been grossly overlooked and needs to be examined more. To me, it sounds like Intrepid will be able to deliver 500 vs 500 PvP matches with room to spare and still give us greater than 30 fps, provided we are using a 10 series graphics card or better.
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That J guy is telling me I'm not subscribed when I actually am subscribed. 🙃
My confidence level in intrepid for making 500vs500 a reality is very close to "yes".
Idk Jahlon just told me he likes me more than most people so he gave me unlisted link, sheesh wink wink
I've seen that 1300 showcase but didn't know what it was until now.
I think they can pull it off, personally think, even 300vs300 would be enough for majority of players, me included (NW had 50vs50 I think, which was awesome, when it worked…) I'm wondering how often we will actually get these battles even if they will manage to pull it off. In NW 50vs50 was often hard to fill(Yes, different game, different size servers, but AoC will have much larger map and no fast travel, how many will actually show up for those and be eligible?)
The rendering portion is but one part of the solution for 500vs500. let's see what the network engineers can accomplish then we will be on track for greatness
I'll believe it when I see it in alpha2 or in the betas. If the netcode survives that kind of battle, I'll know that on release it might be even better.
I think they could pull off 500v500 and I definitely think they can do 250v250.
Doesn't matter is its 500 vs 500 or, 100 vs 100, 5k vs 5k, what matters is the combat and siege, and looking at other mmo's with mass pvp, like sieges its just running together in a huge ball, zerging the opponent, and whoever got the most players or get the initative wins. Its really really boring, i rather have 50vs50 with some meaningful decisions, tactics etc. Look at ESO mass pvp, its boring and bad as fuck. Was way more fun when there was less people.
my confidence is at 400/500
I think 500 vs 500 is a huge target, but taking from all the streams, progress and their ambitions:
– Client side things are looking good. If that's performance now, then naturally they will optimise this.
– During the Alpha and the spot tests, we got to experience how the networking would come into play and most people did respond saying there was very little lagg and latency, latency being more important. However the scale of these are far below what we will expect at the end of development.
The fact they are building their own backend is promising – I don't believe that the team responsible for building and optimising this requires additional team members going by the career listings (though they still have 24 roles to fill going by their website currently).
So to give a straight answer, I am optimistic, more confident than not, but mindful of the challenge of pulling it off. All comes down to the talent they have at their disposal.
Always get my Ashes news from you even though you're kinda chuddy, so yeah this is the first I'm hearing of this
Let’s not forget, that Wildstar had 80 VS 80 battles… These were not frequent after the launch of the game because of long queues. During F2P, when there were less players, 80 VS 80 was kinda non existent. So that’s an issue too. 🧐
This is exciting! This whole thing is a good part of why I'm into Ashes, and it looks like they're gonna be doing the whole shebang.
I felt that this demo might have not been very accurate.
Although I believe Intrepid was honest regarding having 1300 animated characters in the scene, they were never visible at the same time and I feel this is key.
Even though it might have been a more real world scenario, if draw calls is one of the bottle necks to make 500vs500 fights a reality, ideally the demo should have been made on an open field, were you force your GPU to deal with 1300 animated characters at once, without any Occlusion culling (if enabled).
Additionally to this, I'm curious to see the server and networking side of things.
Even though a lot of people comment on the network part, I feel it won't be a big issue considering how fast internet connections are getting for the common folk. (And lets not forget, this game will come out best case scenario in 2024).
On the other hand, the server having to deal with such as concentration of players interacting with each other might be a challenge, mostly on the compute part.
Having to receive so much data from 1000+ players multiple times a second, to then calculate what should happen and finally respond back with what each individual player client needs.
Intrepid has been showing that they have really skilled people working on this game, so maybe they will be able to develop some highly multi-threaded server software or even micro-service level architecture to take advantage of the crazy high core/thread count server CPUs on the market, specially from AMD.
This would be awesome to see, which would also serve to prove once again to that studio with 400Mil+ of budget what good development is, after they have shared that laughable server architecture and experience a few weeks ago.
1) I know about it since the 1300 fight showcase.
2) in the light of that, i DO think it is possible. BUT i think it is too much to handle for the hardware that people are playing on. The 1300 showcase was still quite a static fight without spelleffects, siege weapons, you name it. The 1080 is still a decent piece of hardware which a lot of people still dont have. I know many people that still play on a 1070 still or lower. So you will be talking about maybe 20 fps or less.. not sure if thats what we want. I know, hardware wise, they have to draw a line somewhere but i think 500 vs 500 is just a bit too much to handle. Personally i think 250 vs 250 will already bring epic battles. And maybe they can enable the 500 vs 500 every now and then.
I'll believe it when I see it. Not getting hyped until we're near release.
That's a good demo of the optimized shader pipeline (resulting in less draw calls). I believe they'll have hhuge battles…just not sure 500v500 would be "fun" or "confusing". I played Planetside 2 and loved the large battles, but it was way different in the scale of the playfield.
Also, UE5 has nothing to do with that demo. Nanite is a static mesh specific tech and does not work on skeletal meshes (animated stuff), terrain, or foliage.
There are three issues with large engagements in games: System performance, how tactical and strategic options are implemented and the social interactions in the game. It would appear that Intrepid may have solved the first of these and may have, although we have not seen any evidence of this yet, solutions for the second. The third is much more problematic. If the Hoard can always bring 500 to the battle, will they just roll over smaller groups wining every engagement with their 500 even when the other side can barely muster 100? Will there be social and technological evolution in the game that will allow small groups to advance and hold their own?