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Skill is part of the formula for winning, lets take a race car driver if both are the same skill then it is going to come down to their gear and luck, who has better tires, who has better engine, ect. I use to say this when playing pool and darts if you can play with house cue or darts then when you use good ones that you buy it will only make you better. So yes I think that gear is a needed thing. I mean if you look at any war in history. Who was the winner most of the time the people that had better items and gear. Now the issue I have is with getting the best gear from doing dungeon's. I mean really if the boss has the item then either he got it from the last fool that came in there or he made it. So does that mean that all bosses are now blacksmiths also? I think the best gear should come from blacksmiths that work their trade up to legendary status. You should have to do the boss kills for the things that are needed to make them weapon or armor pieces. Look at it this way, the strongest weapon that we have is a nuke, do you think that there is anyone that is going to try and take on that boss fright for that weapon and win? And I am not for the over the top RNG for making an item. If you as a blacksmith have leveled up your trade you should have a much higher chance of making just what you want. I mean I dont go to bake a chocolate cake and when I open the oven find out that it is a cherry cake. Make something that you have a base chance at making something or failing and every time you make it your base % goes up to make the next one of that type. Swords 45% chance of fail for every time you make a good one it goes up 2-5% till you are at like 95% or something. I know I know hella long
We use to have them talks all the time, but when it comes down to it also it will come down to do you have a better computer then the other person, is your internet better, are your monitors better. There are a lot of things, One game that I played we had people that where just better at animation canceling their toon into doing the something so that they could go right into doing another attack. It was a bug / cheat but it is something that other people could do with time. And I have seen people in the real world that have all the combat training and have top notch weapons and still lose to someone else that got the drop on them just from luck. Wrong place wrong time.
From what I heard about AoC PvP it does seem like it is going to be hella better then New Joke and other games
No I think that kind of system is the system that should be there. That is the penalty for them that wish to PvP and get killed themselves. I mean if you know someone is holding 1k in cash and you knock him out and then check his pockets and only find .50 from random drop that does not make sense. And when you think about it that is what PvP is. You going out and KILLING another person. And if you Kill another person you should get a selection of their stuff even if it is random.
Hey guys, thanks for the showcase again.
Beating stronger gear can be done with experience and a clear mind. In ESO I was playing a dw/dw staminaSK without:
2h (execution, rally, charge, d. swing, onslaught)
SnS (well, turtling king)
Coag/green blood
Corrosive Armor
Vampirism
or the meta sets. I just put everything on WD, Armor, Stamina and mobility pots, because I wanted to play with my class/dual wield abilities, not procs.
I believe that ESO is the game in which gear is 100% the power of a character, since ZOS' bad gear designs did the combat FOR the character, and I opted not to play the typical DK. I opted not to make use of gear power. Yet, no matter how strong the gear contribution is to a character, skill wins. Having said that, if I were to face a skilled stamDK, using the meta gear sets, 2h and SnB, my skill would take me only so far, and I'd lose. I still like to believe that my 400 ping from where I currently live, did not help. But oh well.. I have no love for gear power. I recognize its importance.
My concern for cheap gear being used to bypass PK punishments is real, since in AoC characters will have more avenues of power. In fact, my friends and I will organize a dedicated ranged group in the guild to nuke strategic enemy targets (healers/bards etc), even at the cost of PK. They will be geared with cheap enough gear to successfully carry out focused attacks before the conflict even begins in the open world.
Needless to say that if cheap gear can carry you through the world, (pve and pvp) progressing will become a lot faster and areas will be skipped, since players will opt out of devoting time to gear up themselves and their guild, until lv cap. Which will bring us to an older topic of how quickly should the journey to lv cap be.
As for the notion that mmo players are mostly PvE, I don't think this is correct if you take into account Asian players, eastern, central and southern European players and Brazilian (I have not met other Latin American guilds) players.
However, I believe that people have become accustomed to the single player experience of modern mmos, with other players as background characters (like NPCs), while questing and talking to NPCs is easily achievable, with 0 chances of getting owned. NPCs either follow you around, praising you from dusk till dawn, or the get defeated by you on the first try.
I believe that people have become accustomed to instant gratification, and BG matches, in which PvP resembles mobas and shooters.
Here are the things that ESO did well:
The original story was well written, had A lister voice actors, and the world was full of adventure. That's until you reach lv cap, unlocked all skills and started one shooting everything.
Ever since then, the rest of the content was churned out just for profit. 0 passion.
The combat, even though glitchy looking due to AC, even though very few skills were fun to use, with most of the hot bars filled with heals and selfbuffs, it was adrenaline pumping.
You would win if you outplayed the enemy (or enemy group).
But eso did not do well with PvP and PvE.
You cant have all classes perform all pve roles. There will be a meta and there will be losers/excluded. And you can't have some classes have everything in PvP. Mobility, turtle potential and burst potential in a combat system with unlimited HP/MP/Stamina.
Mmos have pve activities and pvp activities. But mmos should not separate them from each other. PvP and PvE should occur simultaneously, and each class should bring something to the table.
Some classes will be better at large scale pvp, some at small scale, some at duels, some at dps pve, some at tanking, some at healing, some at empowering the group. And having established that some classes will be top in each area, then the classes have secondary capabilities. So what if your damage skills aren't as strong as the other class? Yours is better at smallscale pvp.
That way everybody chooses what they want to be strong at, and they love the rest of their skills as they are. They will have to use them, and nobody will claim that they are weak, since they bring something to the group, the group that faces enemy players and mobs at the same time.
I dont care if my Fighter isn't good for dps. My mage and archer in the group will carry me. I will shine in smallscale pvp. And when the time comes for organized PvP, my fighter will be at the front with the tanks, the archers will be at the back with the mages and the rogues will dive in for the kill. That's how classes work.
Mmos must be PvX with PvE and PvP activities in the same setting.
A skilled player will be proud if he wins against a better equipped enemy.
A player that complains about losing to a better equipped enemy due to gear or level difference, isn't skilled to begin with. Just a loser. A winner will try again and again and win. Rocky style.
As one of those old heads you were talking about, cutting my teeth on a open world PvP server in World of Warcraft, level and gear was always the determining factor in fights. You had two separate sets of gear, one for PvE, and a set of specialized PvP gear.
So one of my biggest interests is seeing how Ashes will handel this, especially since the combat is more like WoW, and less like ESO or New World. Thats one thing i didn't see you guys touch on, is the type of combat this game is, and how that will correlate to how gear functions. This is obviously not a 1vX type of game, and its heavily encouraged to group and zerg, unless you're just out to kill lower level players or duel, and that mirrors WoW so much …so again, it'll be interesting to see how this gear and importance of gear is going to work in the open world. I'm always in favor of skill winning out, but I've yet to see a open world PvP system in this type of COMBAT setting that wasn't entirely based on gear. I actually don't have high hopes for that, solely based on my experience playing these games, but at the same time, i hope im wrong and this is actually innovative and new.
I only think you should have a chance of dropping gear if you are corrupted. It is a good way of having a punishment system in a mmo with open world pvp.
Being someone that stopped playing MMOs when league of legends came out around 2010, it's weird to hear all these conversations about open world pvp as if games like this didn't exist back in the day. And people (myself included) LOVED these games. The ones I played were Eve online, Lineage 2, and a less popular one I played for 5 years was Rohan blood fued. I'm really happy Steven is bringing this Niche back for a modern mmo. Also I'm really surprised Nice and Else didn't play Archage on launch. THEY WOULDVE LOVED IT
Perhaps something can be done with the "type" of gear. There will be PK gear, Crafting gear, Gathering gear … The gear of a pker in a pker situation should be better than the average, general gear. The corruption drop rates will be determined with testing. And depending oh how much pking the devs want will be related to the drop rates.
I liked Asmond's take on it. PKing should not be the norm. On occasion, if the situation arises, it is available, but it should be rare. Defending a caravan, node, or building should be allowed, but anything else, the punishment should sting.
And gear will be made so hopefully there will be a lesser gear grind. You can just offer work and pick it up the next time you log in.
I think your opinions on should gear carry over skill a bit off. Experience in a game doesn’t matter like it did 15 years ago. YouTube and or google made time obsolete. You can spend a couple hours watching guides and catch up. Gear needs to matter. End game pve gear should be very strong.