Read more about Ashes of Creation ➜ https://ashesofcreation.mgn.tv
With the inevidable combat livestream coming over the next few months, I wanted to take the time to create a short series involving and compiling all the current information we know about Ashes of Creation’s combat and to maybe give them some last minute feedback provided it’s not too late!
For any EARLY BIRDS to the video, we’re hosting a Watch Party over on the discord RIGHT NOW so come join your brothers and sisters high on the copium:
https://discord.gg/muwNp8NhbB
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The watch party was a success! almost no spergs what so ever! so we'll probably look at creating more events like this! in the mean time come join your brothers and sisters high on the copium and get on in the discussion:
https://discord.gg/muwNp8NhbB
For me the best thing about GW2 is that "magic damage" isn't managed by magicka and "physical damage" isn't determined by stamina. You have cooldowns on each weapon skill and each utility skill you posess. Also afaik you can make your enemies not-walkthrough-able through settings, but most players decide not to as it is easier to just walk through them to avoid damage/flank
A good game at making Combat feels good is Warhammer Vermintide 2. you can really feel the weapons hitting and you getting hit same goes with blocking attacks and some attack even damage you even if you block. Im a bit of an old guy, i played DAoC with it came out and i loved the team work with healers and youll had to stand still to cast spells and you stoped casting if you got hit, Unless you used fast cast that upped the mana cost and had a 5 min cool down, the game have alot of posions attacks witch cost less and do more damage if made correct other wise it failed and became a standart attack with no effects, where was allso attacks with no requirements but used offen alot of stamina and had less effects, thies where offen combo starters. I would love to see a 202x edition of that, with out the tab tageting.
Sorry for my English, this is not my first language and I am dyslexic
BDO's combat is stupid, to say its the best combat in mmos is ridiculous
I agree TESO combat is even worse
But GW2 combat is not good either
Pure action combat can be done in MMO's, just nobody did it right yet, its better to try to achieve this than to settle for a stupid system that you know will fail
Going for a hybrid is an obvious fail,
15:25 this is the kind of thing that made your channel fail even after asmongloid watching you mate
You think you know better, you are superior, but you lack cognitive hability to understand that offending others labeling them as kids and stupid won't do you any favours in youtube
Btw that may be the reason you are balding, relax mate
ESO combat without animation canceling and add cooldowns, and without weapon swapping instead more spells 🙂 this is the perfect combat for me … !
I am old, I'd like tab-targeting with a rotation. And other than my main char I will click my spells with my mouse. I think I am not the right person to ask how combat should feel in 2022. Still- I'll get used to it but don't forget- you are not always raiding and pvp'ing, sometimes you want something easy and calm while gathering and watching something on the second monitor and it has to feel cosy too. My favourite combat style was SWTOR, but there are reasons nobody know that game.
Please skip these intros next time
My god those boxes shorts and manskirt makes a return… I cannot cope .😳 This type of stuff will keep me viewing every vid 😊, I hope intrepid make some NDA lifts soon so we can see alpha 2 get streamed RIP Wildstar 😓
I hope for original combat system (tab targeting) and hope will be fun.
And also won’t have too in mmorpg the spammy shit combat its really heavy. I really love lineage archeage combat system. Hope Steve will do it greatly 🙏🏻
BUT NAAAARC, that's 'inevitable'.
I do have to agree that it's disingenuous to claim the game has 64 classes. It's like GW1 saying it has 36 classes when in reality, you had 6 (eventually 10) classes that could hybridize with others to varying degrees of success.
I enjoy action combat more, but my favorite MMOs have been tab targetted.
i personally like action combat, loved bdo.
BUT i do also enjoy tab target for certain things and that's where i think Ashes will strive. we'll all be able to find and make our own balance to how much of each we want.
and as for the 64 classes. i agree it's probably more 8 classes with 64 variants. like doesn't matter what a tank chooses second they will still be a tank, just depends on the ablilities you want.
GW2 combat system is decent/good. It just lacks that feel of impact. The audio feedback is just lacking imo, and it can feel very floaty with some abilities. There are so many pure, tab-targeting games, that do a much better job of conveying that feel of actually hitting the target and doing damage.
While action-combat can look amazing and flashy and impactful, it's just annoying and taxing to play for a few hours straight (especially in PvP, where you have a million of actions per minute), it just requires too much of smashing your face on keyboard. BDO combat looks and feels amazing, but I'd rather play a slower tab-targeting game, especially when it comes to PvP. There's also no reason why you couldn't make abilities look as good, with a tab targeting system, especially now.
Hybrid is a way to go, something similar to GW2, but improved upon. Actively dodging stuff, and having skillshots, but also having targeted skills – especially for ranged classes. For example, melee autoattacks and some melee abilities might not require you to target someone, as they would just hit targets in front of/around you. Then some abilities, like taunts, or ranged abilities would require you to have a target, while some ranged abilities could be skillshots. GW2 does stuff pretty much in this way, but again, its combat system isn't perfect and could use a lot of work.
What I also dislike about GW2 is the class system. While you might think there's a ton of customization, in the end you end up using the same weapons as others, and you have no way of customizing their abilities. Its especially the case with classes that don't have a large selection of weapons available. Example: Necro will almost exclusively use an Axe to deal power damage (with Greatsword being available if going with Reaper elite spec). If you want a condi Necro, you'll pretty much always use a scepter (with pistol if you unlocked Harbinger elite spec). There isn't much variety, as you'll end up using the same skills as others.
Archeage did a pretty good job with this, because you could really combine any 3 class trees and get a unique class. Obviously not everything would work well and make sense together, but that's on you to find whatever works for you.
From what I've seen, Ashes will have a similar system to Archeage, where you combine 2 different classes, but the difference is you wont be combining their abilities. Instead, the subclass can augment your main class abilities, changing the way they look and feel (visual effects, animations, sounds). I know the Mage blink has been used as an example countless times already, but let me try with something different. A tank+mage(spellshield) would be different from a tank+cleric(paladin), where a Spellshield might enhance its abilities with elemental magic (adding freezes, burns, etc. to their abilities) while Paladin will enhance its abilities with holy magic (yellow glow, adding some heals/shields to the same abilities).
So let's say Tank class has a barrier/shield ability, a Spellmancer would maybe have a frost shield (with a frost glow effect) where it could slow enemies that hit the Tank while its shield is up. Paladin could have a version with a Holy shield (with a holy glow effect) that will maybe act as an AoE shield, or maybe heal the Tank when the shield expires. The core ability is still the same, but it has slight differences in the way it behaves, its effects and looks. You are still playing a Tank class, but with with a different touch.
If they're going in that direction (I'm fairly sure they are), then I'd be very very happy.
'can't design long lasting fun encounters when you can avoid 100% of the damage', tell that to the souls community.
Action combat is the only way… 777days 4 hrs played in bdo 😆 😆 😆 😆
Algorithm
Appreciate the copium refill 👍🏼
The problems in New World combat weren't attributed by its action-oriented style. The players themselves had pretty complex rotations and mixups given that they only had 3 abilities per weapon. The fundamental system on the player side worked really well. I think New World just didn't add depth to literally any system it had. So when you decide your NPC combat style will function the same as the player side mechanics, you get a system solely dependent on AI for reproducing elements like danger and the impact of an attack towards you.
PvP had a lot of potential but lacked depth. PvE didn't stand a chance because of modern AI for gaming.
Game design was not fluid in New World whatsoever. Pitting action combat as bad in MMO's and using New World as an example is like pointing at a dumb group of people and calling all of humanity dumb… a lazy ignorance many people do. New World literally skipped the first step to design, went straight to the mechanical design, then said fuck it we're done and did none of the finishing touches. But hey, what can you expect from a game that wasn't originally supposed to be an MMO. Now it's being judged (rightfully) in the MMO genre, the most complex, difficult, and consequently boring ass genre… ever.
Intrepid should definitely stick to hybrid combat as it allows more flexibility in reproducing the elements of game play. Hopefully, since that has been Steven's focus for all of the other systems, it will extend to combat.
Some kind of hyrbid combat would be good. Tab targeting is just boring af and action combat like in New World is annyoing to make range attacks.
I would really like to be able to watch your videos since I would love to see AOC content but I just can't….the RP and the derailing you do all the time from the main topic of the video it's just too much!
Love the intros
Tab-target is a relic of the past, action combat is what is needed. It brings a breath of fresh air into the pretty stagnant MMO genre; not only it feels more alive and responsive, it also creates more interesting encounters. Only people that enjoy tab-target are lazy people or people that are always against the (good) change. Tab target combat is like playing chess, it's that boring… plus it's one more unnecessary button to press.
One good hybrid combat I remember enjoying was Wildstar one, but that's it.
Gw2 combat is great but just a little bit off sometime. Monster hit you even when you are clearly out of there range and you have a limited number of dodge to two and take a while to get back, if you make the game to feel more action oriented, you need really great hit box where you can see exactly where monster can and cannot hit you. Also trinity need to exist, why? If you only need 5 DPS to do everything, why make so many class, just make DPS ultimate range/melee hybrid and that's it. But when I say trinity you need to understand that most class should be able to be one of those archetype. This is boring when Mage cannot be a tank only the warrior ultra spec in defense can be the tank, or only the white mage can be the healer. Also if you put 3 or 4 class able to do the job, then they need to be equal in the possibility of doing it. If you tell me that taking a mage tank in this place will make my run near impossible because of XYZ, I will not take it. Clearly what this game seem to go to is NOT that and it will be boring cause every Tank will be a class call TANK… wow.
I have always loved tab combat for how it feels when it done right and flows well but I also enjoyed some of the combat from games like tera where you can put up a shield to actually block attacks so I am really hoping they get a good balance.
tbh best action combat has TERA. the combination of stagger kd sleep stun fear etc is just so good and it feels so fluid and its not to fast so you can still react
You should make a video on class identity and how important it is to get it right.
Elden ring combat mixed with dragon age origins combat.
im on copa cola overdose
@Narc, regarding BDO you seem to be abit outdated, they added zones pve that require high skill needed. But is end game content, the problem with BDO is only microtransctions that are really macro on our wallets. i love the action combat BDO, but people rage to much, cuz they dont understand why they died
keep posting and ill keep watching
just copy wow tlk tab combat with high focus on status/resistances/cc, maybe some area effects, some cool sounds and animations and call it a day
pd: bdo combat for pvp is a disaster, or rather, devs thinking their netcode was gonna cut it omegalul
When your videos get recommended I watch them regardless of the title. I like the game and you are entertaining.
I'm sure that I am not the only one that believes GW2 had poor, shallow combat. 5 abilities you just use over and over running around everywhere– not very tactical. Hope ashes of creation expands a little.
Why not both?
I really don't think that New World failing has anything to do with action combat not being viable (in fact, in a game that had nothing, all it really had as a draw to compensate for it's miniscule ability pool was action combat), if you want to see a better example of action combat in an entirely unrelated genre I suggest you check out Naraka Bladepoint. Obviously this isn't an MMO, but it serves to prove that clearly most modern games have better examples of this. I think the only two things that become annoying are when you are trying to turn your brain off for the some odd thousands of hours you play doing non competitive content and you are now aiming and the second being that many of these games have to have some sort of client priority bringing latency first and foremost up to whether or not you are actually hitting a target if you have achieved at least average aim.
The biggest pro with action combat is the skill ceiling, even when considering latency. Having all ranged abilities being tab target makes ranged almost completely an uncontested meta for most of a game's lifespan, look at Elder Scrolls Online for example. It took five years for melee to even achieve reasonable results and still in many ways ranged is still better because your positional requirements are almost 0.
I understand you feel like pve becomes too easy with iframes making healers not needed, consider again Elder Scrolls Online, a game that has end game pve, iframes, and still needs healers. Not everything is New World where the boss only has three attacks and only does them every five seconds.
Also let's be honest too, if you are completing competitive pve and you can't aim a spell with the hitbox of some of the stuff I can personally recollect from the mage kit then you shouldn't be completing competitive pve, I've had two shoulder surgeries and I don't even struggle with shit like that lmao
if anyone is hyped about auguments it's because they want us too. they also should be realistic about what they can achieve. they promise 64 classes so, logicaly, auguments are supposed to be real costumization that changes your base class into a visually and mechanicaly different one.
What's the source on BDO being revered for having the best combat of all MMOs? I'm genuinely curious, as personally I found it to be absolutely terrible.
Good vod!
FF14 shows tab targeting having the issue of avoiding damage. It really depends on how they design incoming damage not your method of delivery.
There are not 64 classes and nobody wants that. I want to be a cleric with some different flavors, anyone pushing 64 unique classes is sowing dissent.
Narc I love your vids man! <3