Ashes of Creation: The Dream Vs The Reality of The Games Future

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Read more about Ashes of Creation ➜ https://ashesofcreation.mgn.tv

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/CopiumInhaler
With the news of Ashes of Creation slowing to a crawl skepticism for the game is growing and my comment section in particular is being filled with the usual critics I see towards the end of every single month.
But why is the game so harshly critique’d? Is it MMO tribalism? Attacks from New World, Lost Ark and World of Warcraft players? or is there something more to it?
In today’s video, we’ll be discussing this and highlighting why I’ve got so much faith in this highly anticipated MMORPG.

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Only 1 week left until this months livestream!! There’s been absolutely ZERO leaks this time however, we have plenty of interesting speculation going on in the discord with clips to back it up, So come join your brothers and sisters high on the copium as we wait for the next big update: https://discord.gg/muwNp8NhbB

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50 thoughts on “Ashes of Creation: The Dream Vs The Reality of The Games Future”

  2. From the streamers point of view, anything added to the game, good or bad becomes content. You could even say bad systems would create more content for them to spout at their rancid chat. Also they don't actually "play" an MMO while streaming.

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  3. Sadly, Hard work isn’t most people, casual people, the people making a living and have money, want in an MMORPG. I’ll be playing AoC for sure and many will at launch. It’s still going to end up being a niche title because of the things you mentioned. Time, priorities and challenge matter to people who aren’t nerds like us. The days of something like Ultima, SWG, WoW .v1 are not currently trending. 95% of people won’t wanna pay the subscription, time sink or possible losses associated with a PvPvE game like AoC. May copium live on none the less.

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  6. I dont like current mmos but not because they aren't social enough, there are different pain points in each big theme park mmo but one thing I despise that is in all of them is fomo. Joining a game and seeing a mount weapon armor whatever I'd like to have but can never get since it was only available for a limited time completely kills my desire to invest in the game.

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  7. Some say pvp system like was in Lineage2 weill kill game, like kild Lineage2, they wrong, Lineage2 not dead becose pvp system, jus look how many people still Lineage2 H5 or interlude, hundreds of servers ( private ofc ) with thousans playing every day just to pvp, siege, olimpiad and so on, New versions of Lineage2 killd it, not pvp 😉

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  14. It's kind of a catch 22. I want a singleplayer story game from an MMO, because the average player is a drooling fucking moron that ruins my already limited time. So I'd rather not play with them, if I can help it. But they are only drooling fucking morons because MMORPGs went wrong somewhere down the line (2009 Activision acquires Blizzard cough cough) and started marketing the game to, well, drooling fucking morons. So here we are. Maybe Steven can drive a stake into that beast with Ashes. Maybe not.

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  17. We know you hate casual gameplay narc but you need to know that the target audience for these games are now adults who, on average, do not have 10 hours a night to play these games. The average person who has that time are playing Battle Royales and gacha games because they don't care about "meaningful" progression.

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  18. I just want a game like Albion, but with normal combat and no p2w, they nailed pretty much everything else. Too bad their focus was more on milking the mobile market..
    I hope Ashes becomes that game for me with a relatively small community like Albion, and not the next big thing like Asmongold wants it to be.

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  20. AoC is my last hope for a good MMO. But I have faith! I've been playing MMO's since UO and then moved to WoW when that launched. So since back then I've been waiting for someone to go back to what made MMO's great and my word its been a long wait. Bring it on AoC! Steal my life and make me become a hermit! XD

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  22. At the end of the day what makes a game succeed or not is how good the gameplay and systems are. MMO's became less social because it made for a cleaner experience, asking for 30 minutes to form a group in chat is not a meaningful experience and with the rise of social medias the need of social interactions in games is even less. Gameplay is what people want and if the systems of AoC aren't fun then people won't play it.
    MMO's became more singleplayer focused because that's how they could survive, people that like PvP went to games like Counter Strike, League of Legends, Apex Legends, etc. because those games send you straight to the action and have good systems to support the gameplay, people that want social interactions now have Twitter, Reddit, 4chan, VR Chat, etc., majority of people that still play MMO's just want a casual experience in an open world, beat up a giant boss with a group of friends/strangers and have a feeling of progression while doing those things.
    Open World PvP can be successful, Rust is an example of it, all what AoC needs to do is have good gameplay and systems and even people that don't want social interactions will play it and interact with those social systems because the gameplay is good. Socializing in games for the majority of gamers just doesn't matter nowadays.

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  23. I like most things bout AoC but tab targeting kinda nulify alot of things to me, to still have tab target combat on a MMO that gonna release in 2024+ its not apealing at all, but ofc its appealing for WoW boomers i guess, untill AoC will release alot of other AAA MMOs will release(Throne of Libety, Archeage 2 maybe Riot MMO and other KR MMO projects) meanwhile and after ull play their action combat then go try AoC if that will feel worse than thats not gonna be good for the game for sure, full action combat will always be better short and long term and make the combat much more fun and more responsive.

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  24. From what I've heard the pvp will be always on. That's a turn off for me. I don't mind pvp but if I'm out doing something else without pvp in mind I wouldn't want someone just rolling up and smashing me just for the hell of it. It'll be a no for me if this is actually the case. Other than that the game looks pretty decent for where it is.

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  25. I will disagree with you quite heavily on this video, something I have not done with your previous videos: being able to exist as let's say a crafter in an MMO and serving the needs of the people beating bosses to death with thier ballsweat, let's the game feel alive. However, for learning how to make on-demand items I feel like Classic did it best with the Sulfuron Hammer: you can make the base item without having to deal with the chaos of 39 other nerds to get the recipe, however one of these sweaty nerds can then come to you with the materials to craft it, and then imbue it into an awesome weapon like Sulfuras. You learned how to make the baseline Sulfuron Hammer needed, however, by solo or small group content, dedicating yourself to crafting as a niche, and becoming renowned for it in your own way. And even then you'd sometimes be out farming materials or gold and see an army of 40 raiders run past on thier mounts, and maybe you'd recognise some of them for having gear YOU crafted for them.

    I think you are tunnelvisioning something horrendous on very specific social interactions over others, and that is the exact same thing the devs have done for years, just in a way you and most of us disagree with.

    Artifact Power, Renown etc. was made to re-catch that consistent progression feeling of Classic and TBC, but in a different way, as the mystique that made that progression interesting in Molten Core for newcomers all through vanilla was because every mechanic was not entirely understood, boss mods and guides barely existed. This is literally impossible to recreate with the modern internet.

    Streamlining of stats was made to make combat flow better, which it unarguably has, but with the consequence that removing Hit, Expertise and Spirit means damage scaling goes not just off the rails but out of the galaxy each expansion. This also means that Crafted Gear, until the Dragonflight revamp, could not be competitive with raid or PvP or even dungeon gear anymore, as if it was able too then no other form of content was worth the time investment at all.

    In a game whose biggest strength is the responsiveness of movement inputs and ability responsiveness like WoW, it naturally breeds the wish to push your gameplay speed to it's maximum, meaning player skill overall climbs overtime (ALONG with all the new ease of access information), forcing encounters to be made harder and harder at the detriment of all other parts of the game. But, when you hit the point where the best players in the game absolutely teabag all content you make if it isn't on the level of trying to play I Wanna Be The Boshy with 20 people, it becomes inaccessible to the rest of the playerbase, who suddenly realize they no longer have anything to do.

    Seeing as how most of these issues are being improved massively in the upcoming expansion, ESPESCIALLY the crafting system, yeah there is a reason why Asmongold is optimistic and even Preach is coming back.

    Now I personally think we should have Attunements in the style of TBC again but that they should be account wide, and some dungeons on the scale and depth of Blackrock Depths that is designed around NOT being turned into a supersplit M+ dungeon in the future, and instead communication and planning of where to use CC and so on, but hey. Babysteps.

    The reason why guilds kept pushing on progressing early in TBC and late Vanilla was due to a number of factors:
    1) Online international interactions still being a novelty, before the meteoric rise of sites like Facebook and Twitter.
    2) There were much fewer ways to figure out just how bad somebody was, and a still sizeable black hole on guides, espescially video guides, on how to improve your own performance or strategies for a boss.
    3) People's patience. Ability to focus and patience of the general population, not to mention the zoomers, has been destroyed to a point that beggars belief. Meaning that frustration with bad players leads to more lashing out and blacklisting than before.

    All this is to say, what you seem to think Ashes will achieve here is impossible. It is PHYSICALLY impossible to create the 2004-2007 era of MMO glory as it was today. However, Ashes is tackling it in a much different way. Hell, the same way Atlas could've if the devteam wasn't actuall rotting mold: forced player interaction, where you can choose to co-operate or backstab one another and make some truly 4Chan level autistic plans to mess with a guild your guild doesn't like etc. But that is because it is built in a modern engine with a much more interactible world than WoW and GW2. New World failed due to lack of experience and incompetence, but they tried that same exact thing, just with much less spine.

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  26. While most ppl were playing WoW when real MMO existed, i was playing 9Dragons and yea if u had same experience i had while playing 9Dragons i understand what everyone wants and yeah you cant find this in games nowadays, they all made to apeal to majority for the price of killing the main core of players that wanna play a real MMO with meaningful progresion

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  27. before when good MMOs still exist, i feel like you knew who everyone was and everyone knew who you were, even if u didnt know, if u asked some1 else they would know, everything was so meaningful and it really felt like you had a second life, i doubt any game can reproduce that since MMO bein a kinda new genre that time adds alot to that experince too, i can only see this experince reproduced in a VR MMOs when we gonna play our first game there

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  28. Finally someone else said it. I've been trying to explain to my friends for awhile that I don't like any modern MMO anymore because they aren't about the journey anymore. it's always "well the game doesn't actually start until you hit max level so you can grind the same three dungeons for BIS" or "I promise the game is actually fun after 200 hours of the worst fantasy story you've ever had to sit through." even though the entire story could have been summed up in 10 minutes because they needed a reason to stretch it all the way to level 50

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  30. The level of copium in this video talking about players having a change of mentality is astronomical. To be clear I also very much think you're right about how and why games feel cheap and what will make Ashes feel real and impactful, but I think it's truly wishful thinking that the player-base that's been conditioned so heavily to seek instant gratification will accept the 'old-style' of actually having to work for your reward. Hopium intensifies.

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  33. I would throw out Starwars Galaxies too – It definately did not hold your hand pre-nge and pre-cu! You adventured multiple planets; guided yourself. It had many interpersonal connections from Camp Sites; Entertainers, Medics (Who had to cleanse you of debuffs in a medical faciliuty) – Bounty Hunting; Limited Jedi Class and even Space Combat. It was so extensive and hardly ever guided you. It was remarkable and even the decorations system in the game allowed you to use 'EVERYTHING' you gathered in the world as furniture pieces plus crafted stuff. Probably one of the best gathering / crafting systems I've seen until I've been reading Ashes (Which we still dont know how it'll work). So just throwing that out there too – Fantastic era of gaming.

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  36. It is my belief that one of the main reasons people quit playing MMO’s especially like how WoW went from 15 million players to 3 million was due to the social aspect of the game. When most players were being zerged, ninja looted, or straight up harassed back in the day and the only people making progress was scam artists / abusers like Asmondgold who admitted he was doing those things and says he enjoyed the game because of it. This is assuming most players were even able to get into guilds in the first place. That treatment drove off the casual players then the less casual. Later came the people that their classes or specs never got updated to anything meaningful so they were never invited into raids. Only people that play wow now are people that are in a sunk cost falsely or newer players that never played during the time when the expansions was released. Newer players like myself that don’t like turning your brain off doing the same dungeon 720 times to get a Mount to drop while 1 tapping all the enemies isn’t appealing nor is the notion of being a part of a guild that’s going to funnel all the best gear to themselves, give it to their alts if it’s BOE, or someone ninjas that shit and you wasted 4-6 hours to get nothing for sometimes weeks at a time. None of that feels good to players and when randoms like me that have no friends to play with play the game it’s better I have guarantees that I’m not going to get sucked over constantly by other people because we all know in gaming people are selfish and will do anything to get what they want.

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  37. What Asmon is trying to have is another casual, easy to stream, half afk game that you can play with one hand in cheetos. Empty shell of a MMO cater towards players with only 1~h a day to play. Ashes was never meant to be that kind of game.

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  38. Lol I couldn't disagree with everything you said hard enough. But its ok, we are just playing different games – I absolutely enjoy FFXIV and won't touch free for all pvp gankbox like AoC with a bargepole.

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  39. I hate solo content in MMOs. I play games with friends and I wanna be able to do EVERYTHING with friends. It's why I was so GLAD when someone modded Elden ring so quickly to make the coop full and seamless.

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  45. I don't think people realize how small the Intrepid Studios team actually is. For a scalable MMORPG that has ever evolving content, or ability to solve for fixes, bugs, patches, expansions etc; you will need more than 100-150 people. Steven is building a company and I think the faster they hire and double the size of their team, the more they can get done faster. Most people who don't understand what it takes for resources on a project probably haven't realized this yet.

    If Ashes is going to be the next successful MMO everyone's waiting for, that studio is going to need Steven more hands off. And double it's employee count. What does that mean? You need more money. At least another $10-20 million in salaries.

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  46. So I’m now a bit confused about AoC. Who exactly is the game targeted at?

    You were saying that not having a high chance of You were saying that not having content that is too easy and had a very low chance of failure is an appeal and it may be to a certain type of player. But as you pointed out, older players who work full time and may or may not have families, and who might only have a few hours a night are not going to want to play a game where you could spend those two or three hours doing said content that they can’t complete and feel like a waste of time, despite any of the social benefits you mentioned.

    Similarly the younger generations, from my observations, are looking for games that have content that provides as much instant gratification as possible, so the game won’t appeal to them if they too have to work for hours without a guarantee of success, or at least some sort of reward.

    So does that mean that the game is targeted at the group in the middle (mid 20s-mid/late 30s) who might be full time students or content creators like yourself? People who can literally spend 10, 12, 16+ hours a day grinding away so losing an hour or two on a failed run won’t bother them too much. Or they may even see it as a badge of honour that the game literally just took that time investment and relied on your ‘social experience’ to provide the enjoyment to you given you have nothing tangible in game to show for it?

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  48. New World destroyed itself. They took an FPS RPG survival game then decided to make it into a PvP/PVE mmorpg. They did not know what they wanted to create. It was released unfinished and a hot mess. Intrepid will not release a game that does not have a solid MMORPG foundation under it because it was built to be an actual MMORPG game. The fact that the owner of the company is a MMORPG game player developing the game and does not have some Amazon corporate accountant or board of directors telling him to release it before it is done is amazing. Ashes is not going to revolutionize every aspect of a MMORPG but build upon the success of many other MMORPGs then add about 20% unique to it. Ashes Alpha 1 test was more of an mmorpg than New World was upon release. We could swim, ride and fly mounts, do WvW 250+ PvP, gather and actually fight mobs that were not cut and past. We even fought open world boses. Alpha 2 is going to be crazy considering everyting we are seeing in production over the last 6 months.

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  49. Lots of assumptions on why people play mmorpgs and very little actual info on Ashes. I don’t get what the point of this video is other than a general feeling that ashes will not be casual friendly which will be the reason for its downfall.

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  50. Narc I agree that we want to capture that friendship building group social content that we had in EQ and WoW. Where we can make some great friendships and memories along the way. Those of us that are hard core MMORPG gamers that know every class rotation and min/max and grind top gear, mounts, and achievements will migrate towards each other to achieve these high-level goals in this game. However, I would like to see Ashes be a home for all kinds of players. Not just cater to raiders and guilds. I believe that there can be all kinds of achievements and content created for that solo player that can only play a few times a week. I remember in EQ and EQ2 when I had top gear I would MT tank or heal pug runs just to help them achieve that quest item they wanted or get that quest completed when no one would help the poor lobbies out. One thing Ashes will do is make a community out of everyone who belongs to the node you call home. If some guy wants to only farm resources or get paid to decorate houses for 4 hours once a week and pays a sub less gathering, I must do for upkeep of the node. In EQ2 there were guilds dedicated to decorating other people’s homes and some of the things they designed were firkin amazing. I also believe that having the holy trinity+ utility group dynamics in the game will force people to group up even more. I love the fact that rewards mean something in this game. The top 1-5% of all players will have top end game gear so your accomplishments mean something again in a MMORPG. I would love to see raid trophies added to ashes that can be set up in your Guilds. EQ2 had those and when people would zone into our guild, they could see all our achievements because we had all the raid trophies on display. I am really looking forward to Alpha 2. If they nail combat like in EQ2 does and we have group sinergy like Wow and EQ have, with a robust economy, crafting system, Node V Node, and competitive PvP I will be one happy camper.

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