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There is so much misinformation about Ashes of Creation that I felt it necessary to make a clarification video. Yes! Ashes of Creation is going to have Open World PVP. no, it is not meant to be the focus of the PVP. Ashes is going to have 8 meaningful PVP activities including Sieges, Wars, Caravans, as well as open world auto-flag zones post-siege and in International Waters.
Some quotes from Steven Sharif, the Creative Director on Ashes of Creation
“The overwhelming majority of player’s experience with PVP in Ashes will be through CONSENSUAL Systems.”
“Griefing is bad and I feel we have created a system that will sufficiently deter the potential for rampant griefing”
The corruption system tied into the flagging system should be a good enough deterrent for stopping the game from becoming a gank-box or murder hoboville.
If you need more information on the PVP systems, you can go here: https://ashes101.com/pvp
Flagging specifically is here: https://ashes101.com/pvp#flagging
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Great vid! Also, don't forget about the anti griefing guilds that will also populate the servers…they be thirsty!!!
Loved this video. I like the statement you made about most of us PvPers really wanting to have meaningful PvP combat. That's something I don't remember ever hearing any content creator I watch, speak about. As you said, sure there will be a few annoying PKers that just do it to be annoying, but I don't believe that will even reflect 5% of us. This is one of the reasons I really like your content; you actually provide lots of meaningful points to support your perspective. Keep it up man!
If someone kills me ONCE and I only have rwn minutes left to finish what I was doing and I can't finish because I was killed, that ia griefing. They caused me grief. I have been in this community a long time and have NEVER heard it used as only long term griefing.
Do we know if healers have a %xp loss recovery from their resurrection skill vs. releasing to town?
Really good point, Jahlon around minute 9:30 about how long it will take for negative XP for PKers.
Well said, it boggles me to no end when I watch a video and the person just get's so much wrong that they could've just read the wiki before writing the script. Thanks!
Content creators making those videos not to be right, they're doing it to sell RAID SHADOW LEGENDS.
I think that the dying from pvp is worse than dying from pve is a psychological thing. It feels different being attacked from a person who doesn't have a determined pattern of "thought", like the AI script, the other person is, up to a point, unpredictable and that can create stress. Plus, just because you don't get harmed physically or your computer gets fried, it could trigger a person's inate survival instincts. At list that's my hypothesis.
Great explanation! Like you said, there will be PvP at times whether you like it or not. I love the deep dive into the systems designed to payback the “Grief” squads. If you are looking for a strictly solo/PvE game, this isn’t the one.
As I understand it, PvX is the role this game holds, and they have never tried to hide that. I understand the PvE community is looking for something to fill that role, but this isn’t going to be that for them. The developers have done a great job designing the game they want, being angry and nasty that this will not fill the role of strictly PvE and not what that community wants is no reason to flame it.
Btw, I am low time availability gamer, and mostly stick to PvE as my majority content as I am a poor PvP player, just thought I would throw that out there…
I personally am the type of player who doesn't really want to PvP but am open-minded to how it will play out in AoC. My hope for PvP in AoC is that victory is obtainable and loss is rewarding. If my group is fighting against a better geared group, we still have a chance by focusing on the objective. We are about to spawn a caravan, we upgraded it to be a rolling fortress. We are up against actual Griefers that we have no chance of winning against, we feel a sense of satisfaction know that they got a whole lot of corruption from killing us.
Most of my experiences of PvP come from WoW and it does not feel good when a higher level player, who you can not win against, just wants to make themselves feel better by making others feel bad.
The best way I can sum this up would be, if I feel the other player killed me to reach a goal other than they just wanted to see me angry (wanted: farming spot, materials, to upgrade their node, etc) then I am fine with that. If that is not the case then I should be rewarded with knowing that player is worse off than I currently am. My take at least.
IF you are a sweatty griefer/ killer/ murderer etc, atleast be one like those with some finnesse and with a dash of RP. You will add up as the content in a game like Ashes for sure (MMO-RPG).
I'm guessing your talking about AssmanGod and his side-kick NAROH-wars? The thing I learned about those two esp godman, is how he enjoys greiving and that smerky look on his face that he JUST f-F-d with somebody and claiming it was fun? I had already un-scribed his channel as I never knew he was like that and now I can see why he promotes crappy P2WIN gank fests. Getting the PvX clarified makes me more want to play AoC. Problem is we can't play it now. Looking forward to joining a Bounty hunting guild or grp.
i genuinly think that guy who made the video that started this drama is the biggest clown ever, he made a whole video claiming to be the mmo expert, while he literally knew nothing about the pvp system details stever publicly talked about, he was literally clueless, when people explained the system in the comments he replied with comments basically summed up to " what you are saying is wishful thinking, i never saw steven talk about these things " bruh….. at least do the bare minimum of research before making a video where you claim to be the expert on the subject. fucking clown.
No one ever talks about how you get from being flagged "Combatant" to being flagged "Non-Combatant". This is key to why open world PvP will really be "Open World Ganking".
5:25 So i'll answer this. An AI is a constructed challenge that the player is given the decision to engage on their terms. A player is an obstacle and in an open world environment, the attacker takes away the defender's agency. Let me give a short example. A martial artist may enjoy bouts of skill and regularly go to tournaments to test everything he learns. However it's doubtful that he would go down to a local bar where people are known to start random fights with other customers. Some people may enjoy that type of spontaneous conflict while others don't and the problem with open world games is that you are throwing everyone into that situation. Sure people are not going to be physical harmed from it but its time wasted that they would better spend on activities that they enjoy. Time is a precious resource in an mmo and if random people can waste your time everyday to prevent you from doing what you enjoy, most people are just going to walk away from that experience. Getting better at PvP just mitigates some of that lost time. The whole corruption aspect is only an issue if you die. So most often people will just attack low geared/lvled players with valuable resources, relax or do whatever tasks are needed to get the corruption down and then go back to doing what they like. People who don't enjoy this type of player interaction is forced to participate to enjoy the rest of the game. In my opinion games with a high focus on open world pvp don't retain their playerbase. The content of such games is based around gaining advantages and stifling another's progress, preferably to a degree where others can't compete. I'm sure this game will have enough players interested in this experience to maintain a decent playerbase but if they want to have any growth, they can't forcibly mix these types of players. They either need to divide these players with instanced pvp/pve content, allow people to op in to this type of experience or allow endgame progression through various means. I'm at least hoping for the latter.
If I were being completely honest with myself, I probably don't want to have anything to do with PvP directly. But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in it! What I love about AoC as it is being marketed currently is that there are a lot of ways to handle a PvP situation. You can hire a bounty hunting guild on retainer for handling small-time situations for you. You can go to your node's leadership and ask for help, which could potentially lead to economic ramifications if the offending player's node suddenly has to take responsibility for one person's transgressions.
Like, there appears to be so many amazing ways to navigate PvP without actively seeking it out and I'm excited for all of it. The best thing about this game so far to me, assuming it doesn't change, is that there are real consequences for your actions.
Good informative vid which will hopefully inform the misinformed.
I'm not going to defend Asmond but his entire view on this is because of how terrible phase 2 of WoW classic. Being a popular streamer also put a giant target on his back. So I understand his position. You do lay out the pros and cons well and it's very different than what he experienced.
i heard that you said that you can get the best gear only in Open world Dungeon. Maybe you forgot that one but i heard from Steven that crafter make the best Gear for players. Just wanna remind you but if im wrong tell me then 🙂 Thanks for the Video was really good i enjoyed it a lot.
most people get their ego hurt in pvp, from alot of hours in wow i can safely say that is 100% true
I'm not a full on carebear, but I have yet to really sink my teeth into an MMO that has always on PvP, Ashes will be my first. The corruption penalties seem so staggeringly detrimental that I can't fathom how anyone who is informed on the topic can have doubts about the system.
I think misinformation is the biggest issue and with more content creators like yourself speaking up, and clarifying the topic we can at least put up a fight against those few ignorant, but loud voices.
Clean up the thumbnails a little, you got great vids 😀
Thank you for this Video btw.
Seeing the latest content from others actually got me to decide that Ashes of Creation is probably not going to be the game for me.
I had to change my game style around. Competitive gaming is not something i deal with very well so any type of PvP im gone. I have tried! To you comments towards to GF getting good. I have tried, same as her i pvp'd with a dude for a good few month (got less and less over time) even leveled another class to see if i enjoy it with another character but i still sucked and i lost a lovely gaming laptop that too a flying lesson 😀
The System sounds great no doubt about it but as soon as you mentioned the penalties of a dying as a green i lose this and have to build it up again. F im out.
The big thing I would say that attributes to "Carebears" liking PVE deaths vs PVP deaths is that there is an idea of "I could have done this preprogrammed fight differently, therefore it is I that is the problem, but can make changes to win." Where as in PVP, I feel people are automatically afraid everyone has some gear 2 tiers higher than them, and no matter what, they do not stand a chance, therefore it is not 'fair.' The other take is that eventually you will get gear from PVE, where as in PVP, its just a dong waving contest aka a waste of time. Do I agree with this, hell no, but its an arguement I see from some of my guildies that are PVE Based.
YOOOOOOOOOOoo JAh LONG!!
nice video
I think this flagging/corruption system video is incomplete without talking about who can and cannot be PvP flagged against.
Fellow citizens for instance.
That also would go a very, very long way to putting many more PvE focused players minds at rest on the eternal non stop griefing aspect they fear.
I get the impression you want to scare the PvE players off unnecessarily.
I am not saying there is zero PvP threat of course.
As you have demonstrated that well in the video.
Just think it needs a bit more nuance.
There is a diference between having allies by default and a free for all kind of thing.
"Understand the others perspective" and calls 'em Carebears…
ThemeBox? SandPark sounds better.
Ahhh yes lets make the game full pvp and make a complicated system to counter griefing in an MMO where most people dont give a shit about pvp, as a tarkov player they implemented a system to make player (scavs) to play together since its in the lore of the game, let me tell you that 90% of players respected the rules in the first month since it was benifical to do so.The next month they didnt care and it was like they did nothing, what will stop anyone from buying the game twice and start to grief players on his second account? Because there certainly be alot of those in game ruining others experience ( just take a look at all the full-priced games that have blocked thosands of cheaters), why would you make a problem and add ahalf-assed solution to it, why would you make an MMO a full time pvp where you have a dozen of those dead ? No "rule" you make will stop griefing and if you disagree with that take a look at all of those games that got ruined by cheating/griefing
Spread this video far and wide
The main difference between wiping on a boss and dying to a player is the that boss is programmed to attack. A player is just being a dick and trying to fight/kill people that don't want to fight. I WANT to fight the boss. I don't want to waste my time fighting a player when there is nothing in it for me. -Signed a "CareBear"
11:17 ~ 11:26 are there any content about what you said here? Don't remember watching/ reading anything about encounters. I don't really enjoy the possibility of a solo player luring lots of equivalent level mobs then easily aoe them to death without any real consequence, cause I feel it excludes the essence of the trinity
Hey Jahlon its been a while since I watched your videos and posted much. Anyways I am more of a PVE player myself and dont like open world PVP, but that may be because I played UO pre T2A where the entire world outside the cities were free for all PVP with full loot. Add to the fact for many years open world PVP really was never done right. Go even to WOW PVP where you will see level 60s during vanilla just grief a level 20. Or in SWG where as a Rebel in some of the Rebel towns you would have 5 or 6 Rebels and 50+ imps just looking to PVP. I will even point out look at ArcheAge at release where people would take trade packs to Freedrich and you would have 100+ people just waiting there to kill people trading in packs.
Outside of my UO example here all the PVP setups here has been vastly imbalanced. I am not talking about an imbalance in PVP itself like WOW 2v2 3v3 or 5v5. I am talking about in reality most PVPers do not look to be in a fair fight. Just look at WOW PVP servers, every single time 1 faction gets too powerful that PVP server dies, you have virtually no one of the other faction to fight. A lot of it has to do with grieving. Yes keeping people from turning in backs in Freedrich at all is grieving because you are keeping nearly everyone from that content. Keeping people from content to that level is not good. The reason I want to use Freedrich as an example is its the closes to the Dungeon Ghost what ever was talking about, I really dont pay attention to him.
But with Freedrich there is nearly 0 way of trading in packs when nearly at all hours of the day there was at least 50 or more people there just waiting to PK people with trade packs. Now we do want people to not trade packs in at Freedrich but 100 people standing on the turn in NPC is not PVP its just blocking content. Its like in WOW or FFXIV before you could click on the quest giver just standing on the quest giver keeping people from clicking on them. We want people to be able to turn packs in what should have happened is an PVP exclusion zone should have been around the island to some degree. So the PVP that would have needed to happen should have been at sea, because that was the design of the game to have combat at Sea.
Let me circle this back to the dungeon now. If there was a way for high end guilds to totally deny total access to content all the time that will be a problem. Lets use FFXI as an example here, do you remember some of the spawns that dropped certain pieces of gear? Well if you remember that you remember several of the biggest linkshells use to own those spawns. No one else could touch them. That is not good for a game to completely own this content. Now that did happen with WOW in the Vanilla days with the world bosses however you could still get into groups that downed that content if you were their when those bosses spawned. Lets say Ashes has all the best dungeons locked out expect for a few handful of large guilds. Yea I can say that would be a problem because if I remember correctly there will be a lot of crafting receipts and other things in them. It wouldnt be good if unless you were in these large guilds you had no chance at key parts of the game.
At least with the freedrich example if you had to get stopped at sea and you were a part of a smaller group lets say 10 to 20 people. You could my suggestion have a shot at getting to turn in. But 50+ people standing on the turn in npc no you have none.
Basically if you want to be a humbug, prepare for Diminishing returns. I think people will wait until sieges and other forms of pvp to pvp.
This should be mandatory viewing for anyone who is interested in AOC, straight facts no bs and half-truths told by people who do no research.
Often times it is worst to die to mobs. I think most games have a higher penalty for it, but it was your choice to die from it. Past that as long as there is no grief, pvp is a ton of fun. Even if you are not the winner making it a fight makes you better.
Yea the misinformation can turn people off . I feel people overly fear mongering need to research more
Personally I feel like PVP helps you learn your characters abilities 100x more than sitting there in a dungeon spamming the same routine of abilities 😂😅 like nothing is more satisfying than pvping so much you start learning other characters abilities that you never played before and can beat them and they get so mad 😂😂😅 I can honestly see me playing AOC for 5-10 yrs or more easily if they do this right!!!