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In this video I will go over some of the “uh ohs” for the upcoming MMO Ashes of Creation. More AoC content on the way, subscribe.
GAME: Ashes of Creation MMORPG PC
TAGS: ashes of creation, ashes of creation gameplay, ashes of creation mmorpg, ashes of creation cash shop, cosmetic cash shop, ashes of creation news, gameplay, ashes of creation classes, races, axhes of creation alpha 1, alpha, beta, devlopment update, siege, 2021, update massive progress, new mmo, new mmorpg 2021, wolfheartfps, intrepid studios
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Jeff Bard
6:34 Cash Shop
15:40 Content Creator Program
18:49 $500 Alpha
source
What do you guys think? Are cosmetics still pay to win? Would you rather pay a box price and have no cash shop?
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While I agree that pay to win cash shops are a scourge, I don't think cosmetics are really included in that, at least for me. By the same token that some players are rewarded for having the money to buy something that makes them look good, the cosmetics make it feel rewarding for people that just don't have the time to put in. For people who maybe love the game but aren't able to put in more than a couple of hours a week some of the really cool stuff might just be out of reach. There should certainly be a distinction, but most players who really care about that stuff usually will recognize a rare item's true worth over a cash shop item that someone bought because they thought it looked cool.
Just my two cents, love your content and I'm super hyped for AoC either way 🙂
After 5 years of being a guild master for an online game, I left because the game had become pay to win. I'd rather pay a box price any day.
Never even thought about the cosmetics taking away from the game. Thank you for the new perspective!
Ashes of Cosmetics, releasing 250+ cosmetics and only in alpha, they hype the game so much just like Arena-Net did with GW2 and failed badly.
Great video, Wolf. I hope Intrepid appreciates your honest feedback. There is a lot to take in, both positive and potentially negative based on each person's experience and bias. I hope you get into the alpha/beta – I think you would be a boon to them as far as influence over a great community that would naturally have interest in this game. Without your coverage, I would not have even give it a second look.
As long as armor you get from a cosmetic shop it doesn't look better than the end game armor then I don't mind also you took that boot camp thing that way too personally
In my opinion, quality playtesting is a job. If I designed/directed a game, following my principle, I could imagine having a "niche" group of volunteer free-time playtesters (around one hundred or more), who at the very least DO NOT PAY to playtest, but are compensated if they file in actual reports and do not simply just play for free. That is in addition to actual workers who are lead playtesters. Any proof of actually playtesting and giving proper feedback would be rewarded with… at least a free copy of the game and more depending on the level of playtesting. Sadly, some people are willing to sell themselves to feel important and elite. On the other hand, I like crowdfunding and I understand access is given to backers. Steven does not shy away from mentioning he was a MMO player with money, and it shows! The business model is touched by a yuppie* tendency.
* definition : a young person with a well-paid job and a fashionable lifestyle.
A support comment for PonnyTailMMO channel waiting for BG3 news
Shy was very excited about all the different mounts, hopefully she doesn't lose everything in exchange lol
It's sad that games are all doing this cash shop stuff, even for cosmetics. I wont do it.
Your point about ashes selecting people for a boot camp, and you being mad saying " this is how life is" why is that any difference than a cash shop that's cosmetic. I don't get super butt hurt when I see a Lambo on the street in my Honda civic. This is how life is some people make more money than me.
Love your content. I am okay with spending $ to "catch up" because I work alot and kids and such" , but I understand the idea of why make a game in which the content can be skipped. Primary focus for me is pvp and alot of that is gated behind meta builds and I just don't have the time. This is why moba and the like are popular now it's basically like a pickup game of basketball I can just play a game and not grind. Mmo communities are fickle, albeit we haven't had a decent one in awhile. I will concede that nothing in the cash shop should be better statistically then anything that can be aquired, but who cares about skins lol
Completely agree with everything said here. Thanks for taking the time to say it. All cash shops are disingenuous in my opinion regardless of what you can buy there. The rant about the boot camp cracked me up. Also, I would never pay 500 to test a game for a company. They should pay me.
Cosmetic only is how it starts, then over time they'll do what other studios do…add in some minor things that turn into bigger things.
Games start off with the cosmetic only until enough time has past to where those who have already invested a lot of time and money, won't quit the game just bc of pay to win. Once a bit of that sunk cost happens, Ashes will follow the path of those before them. People will complain about it when it happens, but won't stop playing bc they would've already invested the time and money into the game to not quit it.
Cosmetic cash shop is a blindspot for companies.. I find it odd that Steven would go so hard on the cash shop and backer packs with visual transmogs.. looking at a lvl 1 dude wearing a kings garb is more than just lame.. its breaking immersion and making hard work and proffesions obsolete imo. Visual progression in mounts, weapons and Gear is one of top 5 most important in an MMO, the fact that they sell it or will is just sad in any game. i would pay more 2 have it away from the game aswell.
MMO monetization is such a complex issue a college class could be created about it, this is the first video from Wolfheart that i really didn't agree with or like. The video seemed self serving and selfish. Consider me mildly triggered
This might be an unpopular opinion but I feel like a lot of people don't realize that running a server takes money. Paying staff takes money. Paying taxes, etc for your employees takes money. Ashes must come up with money to cover not only initial development and release, but also ongoing development and the costs of running and maintaining a server.
I would say that the subscription fee is designed to cover that. So I don't mind the fees there especially since game cost is zero.
They seem to be approaching the cash shop in a respectful way that still makes it worthwhile to play towards end game to get good and unique looking gear. I don't have a problem with cosmetic only shops handled the way they are doing it, but I am more curious about whether they cap it as a reasonable price like 1 or 2 an item.
“Help people who don’t have $60 for the game!” Too bad they’ll spend $60 on it in 4 months anyway and then more than $60 every month after you just lost me Ashes of Creation
Tab target in 2023…
500 dollars for an alpha is FUCKED. Dont like it at all.
There will be an NPC named Jeffery related to the bard class.
So a VR version of Ashes of Creation?
As someone who simply doesn't have the time to play a game "hard core", top tier endgame gear is usually out of my reach but even if I can get my hands on it, I'm not sure I'd want to parade around in it. There's a lot of gear that is just ugly or simply not my taste and mixing cosmetics looks to get the appearance I want is far more important to me than showing off that I got X gear. In fact, if I have to look a certain way to wear the best gear, it's a huge turn off for me to that game.
In that regard, I have no problem with cosmetic cash shops and if cash shop items are giftable, even players without money (or who doesn't want to spend) can still get those items by making a deal with someone that'll buy for them. That way everyone can get the cash shop stuff, but you still have to play the game to get everything that's unlockable from in-game activities.
They have to monetize their game somehow.its essential for keeping new content comming,too.cosmetics are a decent way,it doesnt break the game,as long as the rest of the ingame gear,doesnt look like total crap
Why can't we just have a server or servers with the cash shop disabled? Make it a higher subscription price if needed.
These games have evolved. The days of an mmo like EQ that can monetize exclusively via sub are gone. Depending on the number of subs to survive and grow alone is usually not sustainable. EQ probably cost 1/30th the development costs of a modern game and even less in monthly overhead. It was also full of hundreds of bugs years into the game that would be utterly ripped apart by modern content creators to the point that it may well have failed instead of becoming the cult classic, foundational piece it was. Ashes, and I am only speaking for this game, has embraced the modern cost/profit dynamic and learned a great deal from every game that came before it. They are bringing a ton of things people want (large scale sieges, player housing, a dynamically changing world, etc.) to the table and offering it to as many people as possible via going sub cost only, no box price. You can essentially play the full game for the $15 dollars sub to find out if you like it not versus $60 box price. In return, due to incredibly high costs of overhead for development and maintenance, they are offering additional cosmetics in the game for sale. People seem to be assuming that these cosmetics will be the only looks that are good or worth having or they will be somehow so far above all other gear and they are making these assumptions based on nothing but what other games have done in the past. Nothing about the creators of this game have shown them to be anything like those from other games. And if no box fee gets more people playing an MMO, good!
AoC at this point is like Star Citizen – is stuck in a perpetual development limbo, but will never be fully released…
i've heard this same argument for why transmog should be taken out of the game. IMO, in an MMO, the more character customization the batter. you should be able to make your character look however you want without it affecting your power.
As long as the NON cosmetic gear isnt drab grey shit compared to the cash cosmetics then i'm all OK with cosmetics. Just make sure we can get good cosmetics from playing the game too!
For an MMO, I prefer a monthly subscription over a one time box price. The reason for this is because with a box cost, they get your money at purchase and then don't have to keep you happy after the honeymoon period. They can let the game go to hell. With a subscription they have to continually keep players engaged and happy or they will just leave. The subscription model also allows continual cash flow which allows them to not need such an emphasis for cash shop transactions. I don't mind cosmetic cash shops because it incentivizes more cosmetic creations, and Ashes is not a game that cares about cosmetic progression, you will look badass from start to finish.
All MMOs that are non-sub, have p2w cash shops. Period. Sub based MMOs should NOT have p2w cash shop, but most do. AoC cosmetic shop, when most BEST LOOKING skins and cosmetics are in-game, not in shop…it's a major plus for me.
Issue is not everyone wants to pay a subscription fee, so people hearing you would rather pay more already lowers the player base for a potential game. The high the sub the less players, the lower the sub the more players and more p2w fees. Its a balance that has to be dealt with and game development isn't free. The balance they are going for is the best of worlds imo no box cost, and making sure end game items is better or equal to cash shop. So long as the ingame items for end game is unique that is all that matters.
I dont get excited about MMO's. I'll wait and see. My guess is a cash shop will ruin the game, at least for me. People always talk about cosmetics are fine, thats just absurd in an MMO. MMO's for about most are getting gear and making your character more powerful. Part of that, maybe the best part is the gear looking the part. Not the gear staying crapy looking and having to go to the cash shop for the good looking stuff. Thats just me though, people play these games for a lot of different reasons.
I think cosmetic cash shops aren't the biggest deal. I personally very rarely buy anything with free to play games or the like.
Your honesty and intelligence always make me smile, man. You bring up and discuss things most people tend to gloss over.