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For anyone who did not make the last official livestream for Ashes of Creation some key things about Freeholds have changed
1: you need to be level 50 to get one
2: the are now allotted out on a lotto bidding system to prevent land rushing
3: there are only going to be a few thousand freeholds so you have very low odds of getting one
Freehold Video: https://youtu.be/ZHkMaNWiKg0
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Timestamps
00:00 – Freehold Facts
07:33 – Freeholds Opinion and Editorial
source
The idea that free holds are going to be a group effort saddens me. I was hoping to be a solo player potato god, living the farming life out in the sticks. 🙁
I always had the feeling that Steven's expectations of players were naïve sometimes: either by underestimating how selfish/corporatist/egoistic individuals and groups will be, overestimating how well player reputation will work, thinking Ashes won't face similar issues other sandbox-ish games faced, etc. Even worse, like you mentioned in the video, it seems like Ashes will repeat the same mistakes other games made in the recent past, which again shows how Steven sometimes seems to be ingenuous (or maybe disingenuous?).
It's hard to articulate well without creating a wall of text, but I worry that Alpha 2 won't be enough to "fix" all the issues the game will inevitably have, especially if they keep Alpha 2 persistent. As a software development engineer and an Alpha 2 key holder, I wish they made Alpha 2 non-persistent so that both Intrepid and the testers have the necessary freedom and resources to actually test the game and most of its systems.
Last but not least, in the forums and now possibly with content creators, it seems like white knighting is the only acceptable position you can have. Even if you have a genuine concern and wish the game well, you probably won't be heard if your concern is not aligned with Intrepid's vision.
I only wish the best for Ashes, but I worry that it won't turn out to be the best game it possibly can if whenever people have a concern the answer is "this game won't be for everyone" or worse.
As a someone who was super hyped about Ashes I have to say I hate these changes. I was looking forward to be crafter – breeder specificaly – its what I love in lots of games. But now it seems like my chances of getting freehold so I can "process" my animals are slim to none. I am afraid that lots of guild and groups that will go nonstop when the game launches will buy all the lands and then we – more casual players – will have no freeholds to buy. Also I dont really like the idea that if I wanna buy freehold I have to rush levl 50 and hope for the best. Now it seems to me that I will either have apartment that i will propably never really use or I will just roam from town to town with no hometown which should be one of the core mechanics of the game.
I agree with everything 100%, and I bet Intrepid and them WK will see this as a toxic video XD
I also am slightly disappointed that Freeholds will be bidded on by auction. So once again, they will only be owned by hardcore players, guilds, and the lucky. I don't invision a small family or individual outbidding many players.
I know I ruffled some of your feathers, you ruffled some of mine, but can we leave the ruffling aside for a moment, I'd like to ask you what would you want intrepid to do since freeholds take up to 6km2 (1.5 acres) there simply isn't enough space on the land map of 480km2 for more than 5k freeholds, probably a lot less – so what is the feedback? increasing the world size delaying the game for a few more years? shrinking down all the freeholds and delaying the game for another few years having to rework the world? I would genuinely like to hear what are we suggesting because if they are limited, the price will be high, high enough that its irrelevant if they do bidding, fixed price, resources – at the end of the day guilds will always 100% get them first.
Is a family different from a guild? Has to be, right? Anyhow, I think it is apparent that Intrepid is going to need to rethink limiting Freeholds and maybe allow for a lot more. If you build a freehold it seems likely that within a relatively short period of time it WILL end up being destroyed as an organic function of node fluctuation – at least early on during the opening months of a server. I would probably not go to the time, effort, and expense of acquiring and developing a freehold until later when I am reasonably certain that it won't be wiped out within a few months. If I put a tavern on my freehold can I have an NPC innkeeper that collects money from players staying at my inn? This should be possible. Same thing with players using a player made crafting station. I can't recall – will there be an AH for selling mats and finished goods or will that have to be in a store that I set up? I'm confused now, lol.
I think being able to place a freehold anywhere in a parcel of land isn't a bad idea since it would support immersion. If a parcel of land supported a maximum of 6 freehold plots of which all were utilised, then you can imagine these plots being grouped together like a tetris piece which doesn't look so good from an immersion standpoint in my opinion. What do you think?
I wonder if this is going to develop into a PvP thing. Players get freeholds early by a guild then get complacent and a bunch of high level players with no freeholds get fed up and assault their node to burn their freeholds to the ground. Does that free up the freeholds again if their assault on the node is successful.
Without charging fee for the stations this will make this game dead in a few months. I don't want to hold materials for a few months until I finally end up buying any freehold (hopefully). It will make freeholds alive by simply letting players use the station for X amount of gold (static) or percentage of tier item value (like from 5% up to 50% and you can set up different % on every tier of the materials). Without system like this people will just stop farming stuff and only guilds will manage to achieve endgame stuff from crafting/processing and we will have to wait like a dogs for them to drop something out to public for overpriced values.
Great video Shalon, and I don't think you're wrong there. As someone with very little previous MMO experience, but a lot of money invested in this game already, I am glad to hear your Hat-Version because I don't have any knowledge to compare. I've been holding back on purchasing Freehold Skins and whinging on Forums. Now, I am very relieved that I did hold back and not buy every bit of Empyrean, as my 'Family' will likely have doubled-up on these.
As someone who plays Albion, where very limited crafting plots are owned by cartels, Intrepid's freehold plan is a recipe for disaster. Not like this.
I completely agree that the bidding system combined with how limited the spaces are and the fact that they can be traded will be a disastrous mix of components but I think I'm most disappointed by the fact that free holds are an end game only type of housing. For me it just seems like either players will make it to lvl cap much sooner than I believed in a node's progression or that the territory around nodes won't have any real noticeable changes until very late.
In FFXIV you cannot sell houses tho. In AoC you can, so that changes things
The hat goes on, that's when you know the realness is going to get spat.
My number one complaint was I had no intention of buying into the system. It seemed.. optional, but now with Master class items and weapons being behind the system I can’t see myself not at least trying for it, but I didn’t want to. Lol I was totally okay with apartment life, I don’t need this to be in my MMO loop. I’ll have to find someone to house me, and let me use their crap lol
I can’t really say I’m surprised, honestly. The bait and switch tactics were bound to happen sooner or later, and I really only see their current decision to incentivize those that have the means and those who don’t are automatically screwed. I honestly think it’s a worse system than FFXIV’s housing, which is saying something (I despise the lottery. I almost preferred it when you could just camp) – but ultimately with ff14 the only people who are screwed are the FC’s (not to say that that’s a good thing, either) and not a large swathe of players because the housing is tied to major game mechanics. I dunno.
Free holds will be controlled by the hordes tbh
Well there goes any and all ambition I had to just chill as a gatherer in my own little corner of the world. Starting to lose any excitement I had for this game.
Might not be well versed in PvP games, strategy and economics, but after playing different games for years, Steven is being naive if he thinks players will behave all nice and civilised as he expects… Ultima Online and it's virtual ecology is an awesome example of expectation vs reality when it comes to player behaviour.
And as you say the moment the game goes live, all major guilds will rush for these plots, and rich will get richer and buy more plots, leaving the rest with nothing, on top of that there is no way they will bother with micromanaging renting the stations to random people, it could mean allowing potential enemies to progress.
Great summary as always, thanks for your work.
The appeal of freeholds was having your own piece of the pie.
I’d rather see instanced freeholds with a zone-matching plot (one freehold per character or maybe account?).
I don’t have any interest in competing for a freehold. It’s not what I ever wanted from freeholds.
All my opinion of course.
This update on Freeholds has honestly made me regret buying into the game. Still looking forward to it, but I feel like I got myself too hyped up.
I think they should make a UI that allows charging fees for use of freehold facilities. They could even integrate a way for mayors/node leadership/whoever sets taxes to impose taxes on the gold charged by freehold facilities, thus supporting the node system. Use of freehold facilities (by non-owners) could be further built into the node system by triggering events similar to over gathering. Also saying we dont want to have a UI to let randoms use freehold stuff, but then how are Taverns going to work? Sounds like you already have the system in place no? Just food for thougtht
Steven doesn't realize how much of an asset you are to the quality of Ashes. Both of you guys are super smart with strong personalities, so butting heads is going to happen if you're not on the same page. However, he's got to curb the pride and recognize that you're a stronger problem solver than he is. A good leader turns his weaknesses into strengths by turning to allies who have a better grasp of things, but that requires humility to boot. The MMORPG knoweldge is there, but the difference is you're better at converting that into wisdom. Steven can't afford to lose focus/vision and drop the ball on this.
Was it known that freeholds would be limited when people bought the cosmetics?
You are not wrong.
1 third of the poeple assigned at launch get freehold but alot of those would have a family of up to 8 i beleive so that potentialy give 20,000 players access to a say in freeholds.
Difference between AA land baron and AoC is that you can loose freeholds in AoC via node wars so you can activly clear up space for you to get a freehold.
With the drop in nodes down to 85 aswell it does potential mean there might be more housing per city since the size if the city could potentialy be larger too so there could be less nodes now but same amount of housing still but wait and see i guess.
A2 will be real check to see though how thing are long wait 🙁
the level 50 waiting sucks considering they want lvl 50 to take awhile :p
Sounds a bit strange. I saw Asmon's video on the Freehold update, and the actual Freehold itself looked promising. That being said, if acquiring a Freehold is going to be tied to a system where a large Guild can monopolize it or higher bidders can push lower bidders out of the market entirely, then that means casual players and solo players have no real chance of acquiring a Freehold. The level restriction is another barrier to entry. It would have made more sense to have Freeholds readily available at earlier levels so that players could build up their Freehold as they level. This would let the Freehold grow as the player grows. Also, having a system built into the game where a player can rent out their Freehold stations (e.g. processing station) to other players for a fee seems like a win-win. This incentivizes the Freehold owners to share their stations, it grants access to other players who wish to use those stations but cannot otherwise due to the difficulty of acquiring them on their own, and it creates interactions in an organic way (i.e. counters the organic argument since it would be organic plus easier to use with actual in game tools for doing so).
Not a fan of the cosmetics issues either for obvious reasons.
I really hope they change the level 50 requirement from freeholds. One of things they mention multiple times is rested xp. If the level cap is 50 and you can only get freeholds at 50, then resting xp bonuses just become something for your alts lower level friends. lol.
I get that the game isn't for everyone, but it seems like its only for the sweatiest of players.
My personal "fear" about the freehold system is that there is no way in hell that normal casual players are ever be able to own a freehold in the game, because as stated in the video the big guild will most definitely be able to land rush normal players with EASE and there will be no "mercy" from them and they will take it all, if given the opportunity. Its just human nature which i personally think Steven does not really get. Maybe i am wrong, just how i personally feel.
Also i am not quite sure about the level requirement for owning a freehold, atleast not to that high degree (level 50 is way too big), cause ONCE again as stated in the video normal / casual players no way in hell will be able to grab any land cause of the more bigger guild land rushing and especially if Intrepid does not want to create a landrush feeling to players, the level requirement is definitely going to create rushing and in my opinion that kind of rushing creates the mentality of not enjoying the everything that the game has to offer, since you are so hard focused getting to that lvl 50 and getting a freehold. To a normal player that kind of a feeling can really be game breaking, knowing that unless they rush and make the game their second job, they will never own a freehold.
Just my two cents to this conversation.
Wauw, im so glad i watched this and not just the gameplay vid on youtube – my hype and expectations have changed alot.
I dont know if it was naive of me, but i always knew i wanted a freehold (probably as a casual player). Now that dreams seem impossible with both lvl requirements, money bidding requirements, guild or family requirements….. seems like there is no room for people with normal jobs who can only play for 3 hours a day nor have a huge guild to sugar daddy them..
Im definitely going over to the forums and voicing my concerns.
It's a very well structured video, very clear and well said. I agree with you in regard to freehold and guild taking over those
However i don't understand how a parcell that we can buy in the world in a system like fracture online would prevent a land rush since guild would still be the one to have more money
Clans, Guilds or W/E will take all the spots. No amount of time or hardwork for a solo will equal a freehold. DOA… such a shame
It looks like a freehold will be too much for a single person to run. (unless they only live for AoC)
I think most people will not think the freeholds will be worth the upkeep. Land barons might be a thing, but each account can only have 1 freehold and you must sell your freehold before you can bid on another. We will have to see how this system will work after launch, but I dont think that there will be a shortage of freehold spaces after launch.
The wording you used to steven WAS a little harsh. This was a big a sudden change, but this is still early development and major things will change.
You should of gave your criticism is a less aggressive wording.
If in testing, there is a huge issue involving selling family slots, they can always add a charging system later. But I dont think they should add it now.
For their iterative process. This is the first public iteration of the freehold system. (The info from before was a concept design. It was a basic idea they used to put the programmers on the same page.)
I think you should separate this video into two videos. The ashes of creation 101 videos should be different from your opinions.
Here is my opinion and I've said this in multiple locations where I can provide feedback.
#1 Bidding system has to go as the only option of getting a freehold, if they want it as an option fine, but making it Gold and also require bidding is just a recipe for disaster.
#2 Size of a Freehold needs to be reduced and the amount needs to at least double.
#3 You have a perfectly good system to determine leadership of a node, I am sure a similar system can be adapted to Freeholds, where influence of the Nodes determines how you acquire the Freehold.
#4 Level cap needs to be reduced from 50 to atleast 25-30. It's ridiculous that housing becomes available at stage 3 but Freeholds is the only one available at max lvl. If you need to limit what you can do on a Freehold until you reach a level cap like processing stations of master/grandmaster quality, that's fine, but the act of getting one shouldn't be left until max lvl.
#5 If processing is tied to Freeholds only, why not give incentive for players to sell off their services should they choose to and have a system in place to allow for this to happen without need for the person giving up a Family slot or being at the actual Freehold. Giving players the option to purchase time allotments for the duration of how long you would want to use the station for while also giving you the ability to extend it. Think of it as a clock in and clock out mechanic for doing your work.
Final thoughts, I am of the mindset of not minding the fact that Freeholds are limited in availability. I do believe if you give players valid and reachable goals, the limiting factor wouldn't be as much of an issue. However, by forcing bidding down our throats as the only viable option is where I disagree.
I believe that you have pointed out the glaring problem with freeholds: The system is vulnerable to exploitation by large guilds