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We’ve been getting a lot of updates on Ashes of Creation and one of the major systems we have gotten an update on is the Caravan system. Modeled loosely after the Farm Hauler/Freighter idea in Archeage, Caravans are going to be the lifeblood of trade. Given that a caravan has the ability to carry one hundred times what a player can carry in their back. Intrepid has also let us know about the merchant ships which are going to add a dynamic to the game, especially now that part of the sea is open PVP with no corruption.
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00:00 – Video Start
00:16 – Rolling PVP Zones
01:01 – Why we use Caravans
02:15 – Parts and their Purpose
03:05 – Crates
03:30 – Launching Caravans
05:01 – Rolling PVP Zones
06:06 – Should caravans drop the loot or should they drop redemption certs?
06:37 – What is the risk to the attacker?
07:44 – Types of Caravans
08:28 – Caravans vs Trade Ships
09:38 – Caravans and Freeholds with a Steven Leak
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Id like to see caravan loot be free for all right after its destroyed.
I know, there will be vultures, but heres how i see it.. in Diablo 2 loot was FFA and you just tried to get it as fast as possible, if you couldnt then tough luck.
Its another layer of competition.
I think if you come within a certain rang(a very large range) of a caravan you are prompted to participate as an attacker, defender, or passive. If you dont choose within a certain amount of time it chooses passive.
And as long as you are within range of that area, if you are passive, you cannot pvp during the fight or a short period after it has ended.
This makes it so theres a little buffer if the attackers win so they can loot.
This does not however stop attackers from fighting each other over the loot.
Alternatively passive could make it so that any defender or attacker they kill gives them corruption during that period.
Caravan drop is an interesting debate. On one hand I'd like to have the benefit of certainty getting my loot after successful raid and not worrying if I can carry it. On the other hand being able to scoop only what you can carry sounds like a lot more fun, at least on paper.
The latter would create a lot more possibilities for game play. You could attack unprepared, get lucky and you get only what you can carry, or you could organise proper heist that would require a lot more planning to be fruitful, preparing a mule/caravan for the loot, plan the route, have enough man power to get the loot securely to the city. Also it would allow the owner to retake what's his (although this might not be feasible due to travel times).
Whichever path they take it will require a lot of testing. What seems like fun on paper could be a nightmare in the game, and this system being vital for the economy, it must be done right.
If I can only carry 1x and I can only launch a caravan from a Caravansary, do I need to make 100 trips from the node’s warehouse to the Caravansary to fill my caravan?
Edit: or 10 trips by mule lol
Is the caravansary pre-constructed or just a default fixed plot?
Redemption loot is a good idea, this way you cant sell caravans for their content. Nor you can use the caravan to 'transfer' materials…
Loving these Crash Course videos. The format is easily digestible.
PvP season rank? I dont like the sound of that. Please no wow like pvp seasons god please nnooooooooo.
To me it makes more sense doing on the contrary. Traditionally if you are attacking a caravan is for the loot. If you are a defender you don't expect to get the loot because that is what the attacker wants so you'd expect something like good fame and in this case certificates.
So as you confirm, zero actual risk to the attacker as you list clear as day null points that don't affect or interrupt game play to the average attacker. Just the 0.01% of crybabys that think rankings matter.
Caravans should drop some of what the caravan was carrying right at the spot it was destroyed. (It can be assumed that the rest was destroyed during the attack.) Remember Gold, Silver, and Bronze participation rankings from World Events in Warhammer Online? The reward / loot you get as an attacker will depend on how much you contributed to 'killing' the caravan. Every attacker that meets the minimum to qualify as Bronze will click to get their loot.
i like the hard idea, when destroy caravans drop all the loot or maybe amount % of them
Are the parts added to the caravan's one time use?
Question: for how long after a caravan is destroyed will it be lootable? Will there be lootdecay?
Here's my 2 cents on the looting system:
If a caravan can hold up to 100x a characters inventory, then it would take 100 attackers with empty backpacks in a caravan raid to pick it clean.
I don't think that's going to happen too often, unless/untill very large guilds that specificallly trained for this pop up. Let's say your average caravan journey will be safe-ish in that regard.
To actually loot the caravan after you destroy it you should be able to acces the inventory compartments and loot whatever you want, the only restricting thing being the inventory size of your backpack/mule.
Defenders
If it was a freeforall loot situation and your caravan is well defended but destroyed, when you interact with the caravances inventory as a defender you get to choose between certificates or to loot. Lets say 1 certificate is the insurance of 1 chest on the caravan.
You can use these certificates to sell at any caravancery to finish your caravan quest.
Now, if you were to be killed with those certificates on you while participating in any caravan quest from then, your certificate will be lootable and maybe after obtaining it you might want to sell it to the thieves guild or something, im sure there some questsystem could revolve around this.
So, there isn't a way to move big quantities of goods at once besides these caravans that can only be spawned within 100-150 meters from the board? I don't understand why limit the spawn locations? At first I thought it was a separate system but you seem to be explaining that it's part of the open world. I also agree that it should drop the actual good if it's an open world function.
I still don't understand… do you actually Drive the caravan? can you drive it off the road? or is it just move forward or backward or stop following the road path or is it fully automatic? can a friend drive your caravan?
Remember: Every caravan is FREE LOOT! Why would anyone defend a caravan?
If it's going to take a lot of extra work to model all the loot a caravan can drop, and a lot more future work as items are added, I'd prefer the certificate system, as it simplifies the coding and gets the game done faster.
I also like the thought of bandits having to move their loot from a city after they loot a caravan. Do they then use a caravan and worry about it being looted as well? Do they set up a merchant inside the city that launched the caravan? I don't see that happening unless it's finished goods, or rare goods.
Karma to the bandits sounds fun, and it could also add a fun dynamic to guild wars, where one guild robs a caravan then the victim guild robs the caravan sent by the robbers to get their stuff back. Returning to the city that spawned the caravan adds an interesting dynamic.
I have a quastion, if I destroy/sink merchant ship is it gonna drop the matariels/items or just certs? if it just drops certs its gonna be unsatifying for sure. at least for me
First sorry about my way of writing and English,but I will try to explain best I can. It would be cool if caravans drops locked crates that requires a rogue player or a key that blacksmiths can craft to open. And the crates that you place in the caravan should be crafted by crafters, crates should have, green, blue, purple, orange quality, depending on the crafters level. The higher quality of the crate, the harder to destroy or open. And make it where caravans will drop 10 crates once destroyed no matter how much load it had carrying, and some crates can be empty too if load was light and owner placed 10 crates. Also I hope attackers are not immune to each other’s attack, that way attackers can accidentally kill or hit each other. For looting the crates, you should only be able to carry 1 crate, that way if there are more than 10 players they can pvp more….LOL Hopefully you understand what I mean, it’s just an idea of more drama and content to the drop. Lmk
Thanks
Thank you.
@5:35 you talk about not being able to join the caravan just before it passes the finish line. One simple fix would be to pro-rata the defender reward with the percentage of the caravan duration they defended for. If you join with 1 minute left of the half hour journey then expect to only have 3.33% of a share of the caravan defense pot.
If Intrepid find that large groups join in the final minute to 'steal' a portion of the defense pot then apply an exponential factor to the defense %age. For example, if someone joins the defenders at the halfway point then they only get 25% of one share (50%^2) of the defense pot. The point is that an algorithm can be applied to discourage late journey exploiters.
Spoils from a successful raid: I would prefer if the damaged caravan remained in situ for 5? minutes to allow the raiders to take the goods by some mutually agreed process (with a Norlan dice roll to break any ties). Would the goods be shared equal split, FFA, Need/Greed or some other method? I can understand why there was previously talk of Certificates that need to be redeemed back at the source node – it avoids a whole load of complication.
Bait Caravans and "Q-Ships": The cost of generating a caravan should be sufficient to discourage Bait caravans for low value materials / unfinished goods. As part of the cost of transporting higher end materials Intrepid should definitely allow Bait Caravans as it is another form of money/time/resource sink. By "Q-ships" I mean caravans that don't carry goods but pack some kind of unpleasant surprise (if I can steal Tiny Tina's "Fantas C4" idea we can get round the 'no blackpowder' issue).
I like the idea of it being FFA. However, it could be done in such a way that instead of individual items are dropped, it randomly organizes and drops items in a trade pack or maybe the caravan owner strategically can organize the loot somehow when loading for it in the event of being looted to drop in a certain way. This could provide a means to try to avoid losses in certain ways. Like not all the highest valuable loot drops in one particular trade pack. It is instead distributed so there is chance of recovery of some of it. These trade packs could be looted by an individual player and then they have to follow trade pack rules and hiking it to your destination or another caravan ready to transport. This would avoid complete madness of items everywhere, but also make more fun for strategic planning on how to ruck the items out. Its taking a large loot box and putting some control on it and dropping mini loot boxes. You would need to decide which boxes to pick up if you don't have enough players or time to get it all. Maybe you have a rendezvous point with your buddies to meet at secretly to get off the main route and get it safely back. Maybe its a spot you keep making drops to as you go back and forth to the kill site. The whole time your carrying it back, you as an individual player can now subject to attack and loose the pack if that were to happen. Gives the opportunity for players to either get some of their loot back or maybe just random PVP player to get some loot to. I feel the gameplay would be much better this way then just a digital piece of paper that says you own things now. A piece of digital paper would just not feel fun, and fun is the most important point. The more I think about it, big loot box breaks down to smaller loot boxes which then begins to break up all the items and they begin to disperse into other potential game loops sounds like the best option to me. Of course all this in theory. So many ways this could be fun.