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I’m really not sure what to make of this update. In some ways I think it is great because it is showing off a lot of great things that Intrepid has improved on. The art and animation are leagues better than the APOC days, all of this looks better than last year’s Alpha 1. In other ways, I’m really confused because things like active blocking don’t easily fit into a tab centric game. I’m really hoping that Intrepid does less dog and pony show next month and spells out more of the new direction and vision.
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I think I'm gonna withhold judgment til I get more info. The looks, animations, and mobs look awesome, but this feels like a point to me. Need some more points to see the line.
Did not like it.
“Ashes will be hybrid combat with tab focus. If we can’t nail down hybrid then ashes will be a tab target game” Steven said that from 2017 to 2019. From what I’m seeing with the abilities used in this video and the active active blocking that Ashes has gone full, or at least majority action combat. Someone said something during the live stream about Steven shooting another video in developer mode, and Margaret responded with “ of corse Stevens in god mode for the video, we wanted to showcase combat not him dying all the time.” That statement really pushes me in the direction of believing that waterfall stats are out the window. One of the questions Margaret Cherry picked to ask was if their would be active dodge and I-frames, Stevens response was “oh yes absolutely. There will be several little dodge abilities, i-frames, and ways to zip around. We want you to be able to defend yourself when your being attacked.”
When I backed ashes back in 2017, Steven described Ashes as being something completely different than what it is now. One of the things he said was that he had four thousand pages of game design already written and that the core product was already funded. The crowd funding was for the “extra stuff”. He had a clear and concise vision for ashes of creation and if people didn’t like it they didn’t have to play it. Steven’s now famous quote “Ashes of creation won’t be for everyone, and that’s ok. No one is forcing you to play, no one is forcing you to purchase anything. In fact if you have any doubts, don’t buy anything. Wait until the game comes out.” Now every time I hear him say that I scoff. I would rather pay to fly to California and pay Steven to physically spit in my face, than him continue to get on camera and social media and lie to my face. He is constantly changing Ashes of creation to make the loudest group of complainers happy. Steven backpedals on a considerable amount of what he says to appease the masses so much that Ashes has been in development for five years and is less than 25% complete, largely due to starting over and indecision. Not that they should be finished, but that generous 25% for five years is significant.
Im not saying what Ashes is doing doesn’t look good, or people will or won’t like it. It’s not I was sold at time of purchase. If you bought a house, car, or a new pc if your younger, and you were told “ this is wha it’s going to look like and here are the specs. It should take X time.” Five years later it looks like an industrial complex instead of a family home, or your hardware is three generations old but it’s in a custom five thousand dollar water cooling rig and they still don’t have the pump built but they ran the lines. “Here’s less than 25% of the house/car/pc we’ve spent your money’s on over the past five years though.” You can’t live in less than 25% of a house, you can’t drive less than 25% of a car, and less than 25% of a PC wont even tun on. That’s not what you sold me, plain and simple. It’s called bait and switch, and it’s illegal.
To top it all off Steven joking mentioned they changed the world up and there’s changed that have been made to the map. Another restart, another backpedal after saying “this will be the actual map, this is the world, it had 18 biomes, this is how it will be in game.”, another moved goal post, another “pillar of Ashes” shifted. So “ashes wont be for everyone and that’s ok” but it’s constantly changing so wait a month and it might be for you.
I don’t think anyone is saying it doesn’t look good or that they’re 100% don’t if that’s how it’s going to be, yet. However, Steven, this is not what you sold us. This isn’t the product we invested in and not only does it seem more and more flyby night, you can’t even get one aspect nailed down after five years.
But hey applause’s all around, after five years your combat is where it should have been. That’s like being excited because someone did their job according to their job description.
I just don’t understand how action combat would work for ranged classes? How do you expect a mage or a ranger to be effective if they can’t land their rotations? I’m fine with action when it comes to melee attacks though.
Not feeling it at all. Heavy and light attack are too similar. Heavy attack doesnt seem heavy at all.
The livestream was a massive win. Everyone liked it.
I like your content, but you are extremely biased in this particular subject, you talk about action players as if they are a minority when in fact they are the Large majority…
There is no such thing as "vocal minority" or "silent majority" it's simple as: There are more action players following Ashes in 2022.
Maybe back in 2017 there were more tab players following the game, not anymore and this is clearly the case
You are advocating for something you Want, and that's ok, but that's just not the best thing for the game, they Have the numbers they Know who is the majority, looking at the forums, at discord, reddit, other streamers everywhere people are largely in favor of action oriented combat.
I understand the trepidation concerning the present iteration of combat, in relation to how we thought combat was going to go. That said, the one constant message that has come from Steven is, the entire process of this game is going to be iterative. Things are likely to change, depending on internal discussion, and community feedback. Will some of those iterations diverge from earlier statements? Yes. And, that's likely to turn some people off. The only think that's been a constant is, no P2W.
Personally, I like the direction that combat is taking. And, we have to remember that, combat isn't finished. This was a stream to showcase the early version of combat animations. Not, so much combat mechanics. Intrepid could still be trying to come up with a hybrid system that looks/feels good. Or, it's entirely possible that they prefer to go completely action. Best bet is to stay connected, and leave feedback.
Thanks for the video, Jahlon!
we need to see the direction.
We need to see the tab combat abilities, but if we dont see tab combat. They will loose so many people.
If this is the action combat section section it looks good but only if we see the tab combat next month ideally before.
Also the tab combat players need some more intuitive filler combat playing in tab camera doing this action filler attacks I think wil be horrible
we honestly haven't seen enough to make a good assessment of the combat, we have no UI or really any skills used, we also only saw two weapons on one fighting style. Once there is more information then i could say if i like the direction they are going or not, but there just isn't enough information to make that judgement.
This is looks like hybrid start, you can see melee auto-attacks that are action, you didn't see any tab skills since there were none presented yet
i get your point but i think you're over thinking. Steven mention that this is just a small slice of the combat and it showed 99% of just basic attack animation which to me would only be action combat so I reckon abilitys and spells etc, you would get the option to use tab.
Action combat is the future tbh.
I was expecting much much more. They should have delayed this reveal and then packaged it all together as a full combat reveal to you know reveal what combat is actually going to look and feel like. That is what is going to make or break the game for many.
The fact they broke it down shows either indecision from their side or they haven't got it working from their side yet… Either one is bad. After how many years in development they had the ability to show basic attacks on a 2 handed sword and what looked like under polished and rough dagger attacks. Hmm worrying imo.
Agreed. It's been a huge swing from hybrid to action and the active block really shows this. Personally I preferred what they showed previously which looked more like GW2/AA, this is more akin to BDO
I thought their stance was always going to be "pure action" basic weapon attacks, with the abilities being a mix of tab and action. Or am I misremembering? Like I thought one of their core stances was not to have the typical tab auto-attacks but you have to consistently press the button/do the attack? And then the tab/action mix was for all the class abilities?
All games like this flop
Currently what I see is hybrid combat as promised, pretty much improved GW2 combat. Unless they will show that you need to fully aim ranged basic attacks, everything as expected.
Also I think that caster/ranged classes will be more tab target oriented. And melee more action combat oriented.
This was a melee update.
When I think of tab, I think of ranged characters like magic casters and ranged weapons. Tab/action combat is really only a ui thing. I think you are thinking about tab and action too much.
They had active blocking in the video, but it didnt feel that impactful.
I want to see a tab ranged build next month.
there are enuf of tab target games already, would be no point making another one
i prefere tab combat for sure.
I'm not locking in my opinion on the combat just yet. Steven stressed heavily that this is just the base combat and he wants to get feedback from Alpha 2. It would be nice if they showed some Tab target soon. My overarching concern is mainly around the archetypes and classes. I am hoping that a Cleric swings their sword a bit differently from a Fighter or a Rogue. i am a bit concerned about that roll he showed off. It did not seem to be on a cool down. If that is up all the time, but the combat has switched to all Action, hitting may become just about impossible.
I am fine with meele combat being action and ranged being tab target. It was great in gw2 and there you had both tab target and action skills. Let them finish all weapons to talk the things you said in that video. For me you roast Steven too fast. Times of tab targetting auto attacks are long gone, wow has boring auto attacks, do you want the same in this game? I just feel that this combat is too quick and 200v200 wars will be looking terrible. They should slow it down by around 10-15% to be perfect.
I prefer tab target. I am optimistic about what I'm seeing but would like to see more Tab Target in a future stream as well. I was hoping for something like Guild Wars 2 but the more I see the video the more i just see Black Desert style combat.
Oh no, there listening to the majority of players! 😱 What company would do such a thing!
what do you mean you dont know what direction youre going? this combat that you see is fully fleshed out. its close to being to wow's combat. do you even know the differences of tab target versus action combat?
I’m confused about the issues because this it what they’ve said they wanted. It was always supposed to be hybrid. I never saw them say it was supposed to be tab only
For me the combat is going the direction I was hopping that they would, however I completely understand your concerns as look forward too intrepid telling us more.
I'm not sure what point you’re trying to make. If you want to stay in the context of what they are showing today, they said they are showing weapon swings and directional movement. So these are the animations that will play out whether you are in action combat or tab targeting. If you are in tab targeting, you can imagine that will be your auto attack; in action combat that will be your left mouse click. Good video though showing your concern.
tab targeting