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MMORPG Ashes Of Creation will be a large-scale open world PvP / PvX game. With it being so zerg heavy and guild focused due to certain systems and concepts, what will be the counter play and should AOE be strong as a way to combat large groups? If not will strength in numbers be too much strength?
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0:00 Large Scale Warfare
2:18 MMO AOE Discussion
4:29 Strength In Numbers
6:28 AOE Value
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It is almost impossible to avoid zergs. It's just like real life.. numbers tend to dominate
the answer to zergs(large groups depending on numbers) is ballgroups(groups of pvpers who know their job). nerf this, buff that, isnt working
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ANYTHING to prevent “murderball warfare”, imo. I really hope it is not so easy to revive downs over and over and over like it is in GW2 WvW.
There definitely have to be anti-zerg tools, but they should not be too trivial to use. I think this is a balancing task, that I would not expect to be solved perfectly from the start. Having numbers and having player skill both have to be valuable and feel rewarding and impactful.
Death is item degradation. Zergs, like tyrranids, have the same weakeness, if they win but are at a material loss (due to gear repairs in ashes needing materials) they swiftly fall apart.
Zerg players are not the best, so they die a lot.
Used to be a 1vX chad myself, my biggest concern is a Duneripper situstion in ashes, with tanks killing ppl with procs like Duneripper, Way of Fire, Viper in ESO. That is a more cancerous gsmrplay than Zergs.
AoE is a bit too complex to discuss without testing. In PvE I would hate the FFXIV meta where you just spam your AoE rotation whenever there are 3 or more mobs.
For pvp keep in mind that this game has player collision, and stacking like in GW2 shouldn’t happen, so idk to which degree AoE scaling would even be effective.
Personally, I would like AoE in PvP to be sustained damage instead of killing blows, and very resource intensive (very effective against large groups but useless against smaller groups). And if there’s a big AoE nuke it better have a huge cost and a loooong cast and animation time, like a meteor you can see coming at your face.
your gaining weight? best see Dr. Burns for that!
Imo it's wiser to have a "perfect balance" kind of thing when we talk about AoE. Sure its good anti-zerg mesure, but that can turn epic massive battles into "AoE fiesta" . As lone wolf-melee player many times in many mmo when a big scale battle happens (50vs50 plus) i catch myself spectating the whole thing cause i cant pass thru AoEs. The 2 sides just hold their ground and shot AoEs in the middle. If you dont have full buffs + pocket medic u cant approach at all, if your class doesnt have AoE in that case you are totaly a spectator. I dont want that to happen in AoC but we must wait and see at this point.
Albion has a lot of strong AoE, even have AoE ascalation, and still its a zerg fest. You know why, cuz heals, buffs, damage reduction, its all AoE, and supportive aoe ability rewards grouping together, if we have all those AoE in ashes this game will turn into 2 blobs smacking each other, taking aoe to the face, cuz bard will shield, healer will heal and tank will mitigate, all in aoe. I want ashes of creation combat to be more than just braindead meatgrinder, and thats where we are heading right now
Edit. this eso clip, you just 1v4 one shot all of them with one aoe, why would you ever want to play single target damage, when you can do this?
No fucking AoE damage nerfs!
No diminishing damage after X targets either, FF14 has this and it fucks up the mob dying times.
Also, Loot scarcity will make Zergs the least rewarding style of play in Ashes.
I just want varying sized PvP battles.
Group vs Group, Raid vs Raid, and Zerg vs Zerg. If intrepid can find a way to create those types of situations I'll be ecstatic
It depends a lot on how PvP will work. In DAoC and to a lesser extend WAR, you could fight a zerg with 1-2 well made and played groups (8 man in DAoC). Not really win typically, but harass with fight and run tactics, usually getting many kills. There just about always are and will be in Ashes, zergs. Zergs allow anyone to PvP and not everyone has time to play enough to have a ready-to-go good group 24/7, so large blobs have their place (tough to balance, so we'll see). Now, what I personally think Ashes is missing is a place to 'mess around'. In DAoC it was Emain wall and later instances. This is needed because a spot to practice and/or have fun is always needed to encourage overall PvP in any MMO. Throwing players 'into the fire' will make players quit. You can't be heading out with your trading caravan without having PvPed some or you'll have a lot of rage quits. Tons to say on this, so many factors. TTK is important, too fast and new players feel helpless, too long and good players can't be killed… too many over-lapping AOEs cause lag and can become the de-facto 'best way to play' (happened repeatedly in ESO, lag included, same with GW2). Need some mechanic(s) that can counter many AOEs or deters many AOEs being casted in a small area (maybe the mana cost goes ups exponentially? Can explain by saying only so much 'magic' in an area. Same argument could make each AOE cast after say 3 become progressively weaker in damage). Ugh, could text out pages on proper PvP balance…. haha
I'm a large scale enjoyer(and objective based PvP) and imo there needs to be high impact aoe offensive, defensive and utility skills otherwise the game becomes boring even in ZvZ. But ofc offensive skills should in general have an advantage, usually there's more offensive resources in games already. Defensive's also tend to be strong but are more limited in resource/number of affected players.
CC and de-buffs can be used in both ways, offensively and defensively.
It all comes down to taking advantage of weaknesses in the defense. It can be as simple as a surprise attack(bombing for example). But If the defense is always wide open, aka no defensive's provided by the game, then then game isn't complex enough and it becomes to linear.
I knew it! You love Dark Convergence! You scrub 😂
I wonder if a node will be able to hire mercenaries from other nodes to help them in a node war that aren't the at war nodes. Would be a cool playstyle
Oh no not the AoE shit again. 😂😂😂 Great video!
Nyce
Did I really just watch this to hear you blatantly advocate for dark convergence and plaguebreak?
Nic….. sike! Nyce!
Eve online has 2 creatuve solutions for punishment of tight groups.
Bombers where they are easily killed but a few of them with well times strikes can wipe 100s of ill prepared ships.
Requires major objectives that are multiple small objectives which can break up a 250 man group in 10 separate groups. Now your 10 man squad can catch one unware with out a proper ahotcaller and get wiped.
Zergs break these games. They need a debuff when 5 or more people are together, taking more damage and dealing less. There are more points of interest that have to be taken at the same time. Otherwise, one of two large guilds owns the server and pushes out all other players through frustration. It sucks to be Insta melted, and PVP games have failed for this very reason time and time again. I hope AOC has the answer to this. Otherwise, we will see Streamer armies rule everything.
I think the people calling for aoe nerfs are stemming from the AOE meta that wow adopted years ago. We used to have to CC mobs and pull 1-2 at a time or we would wipe. Mages would sheep, rogues would sap, hunters would trap. It required diverse group comps to be successful. Well later on the game changed to "pull as much as possible and burn it all down". This is the point a lot of classes started to feel unimportant and less meaningful. We are already seeing this in Ashes in PvE. So I think that's why they complain about crazy aoe. But these players also forget about the pvp in ashes. Large scale wars and big group battles need aoe. If we nerf one we nerf both and it'll feel bad. The days of careful CC and single pulls in PvE are gone boys. GG.
How long are you going to hang around in a zerg group waiting for a world event to happen that may or may not happen? One day? Two days? A whole week just sitting around hoping a world event happens near by? Zerg groups and bots will not happen in this game.