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0:00 Steven’s response
46:07 A conversation with Narc
1:54:42 A conversation with Stephen
3:34:34 A conversation with PirateSoftware
Channel Editors: CatDany & Daily Dose of Asmongold
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If you think I’m going to lay here watching this for 3 hours and 40 mins then you would be correct.
and all this over an unifinished game that may never see the light and wen it does could end up being totally irrelevant to the mmo market, dont care about this forever alpha game since we alredy have plenty of finished mmo and more to come out.
I get their points, the desert lacks playable content. But it's funny as hell listening to people arguing over a desert being empty.
the stuff clearly is existing in a branch on their Github, and where these assets are disconnected from the world, just waiting for being placed into the world and then complete the missing assets.
as a dev you always develop stuff mudularity when ur in a team. so that your stuff don't hold back the rest of the team. and then when the time comes your job is to "merge" it into to main development branch and implement it correctly and fully.
Narc went full dark maga
Should change Title to "Ex-Baker vs 2 game Devs and the balding one"
2:57:30 I believe you stoke a fire not stroke it. 😊
Narc is definitely emotionally charged on this, its like a bad breakup exactly like one, "i dont hold any rancor, but im going to make a passive aggressive video about why im leaving it and posting revenge p*rn online"
If he wants to walk away, thats great, its his decision, making a video calling people liars and scammers, then walking back and saying ok maybe not a scam and so forth, IS harmful to the company, maybe he is right, maybe he is wrong, but misrepresenting something because he is hurting and turned it into a ethic issue is just senseless, walk away, no need to diss and bad mouth something.
I have never played this game, didnt even know about this so i'd think im not biased on it, but I've seen this sort of emotional charge and frankly, infantile behaviour many times before.
There is one simple rule of creating ANYTHING. You don't share the process until the product is done and sold. Then it becomes interesting to know the "making of". Selling unfinished products is always going to backfire. You can show teasers but DO NOT sell something that does not exist. 10-20 years ago every creator understood this… now everyone is selling hope and selling dreams. The other issue is budget, creators do this because they are unrealistic about their budget… they do not have the money to make what they want to make but instead of making something they can, they crowd fund their big project and let the customers pay for the blunders. This is why everyone hates it, even if there is no money involved and you just sell the idea it still makes people upset when the reality does not match.
The problem to me, is the way it’s being funded. People are choosing to fund this project without any type of profit sharing I’m guessing. Which, for a developer then it’s a win win. They can pay less for people to test their game through ‘good will’ while simultaneously funding the project. As an engineer, they’d have to pay me $70ish bucks an hour to work on this thing, or even test it as a side gig. So, people are paying to do a job that exists in that industry. If you are paying, you’re basically a founding partner, and would be entitled then to some expectations of progress at the least. Especially with this business model.
I had to stop watching narc months ago. This just solidifies he's the man child I thought he was lol
"Dont exist" is just plain wrong. if they push something into active alpha that is not needed like an weather system is up to them. many devs push one system after another, having everything in parrallel makes no sense, the framework comes first
Isn't a desert only sand though..?
Keep hearing $250, meanwhile check my starcitizen hangar and thinking that's rookie numbers, you could get scammed for way more
I think how the dessert changed from phase 1 into phase 2 is part of the issue here too?
Azmon is defending this developer suspiciously hard. Take note of things like that. Hes got this guy steven on speed dial apparently and was able to pull him in on a whim. This is an obvious scam the dev is pulling, the game will probably launch, but this is a pre-release scam. Releasing a hollow desert with no content is just a way to avoid a lawsuit. "THE DESERT IS THERE, WE DIDNT LIE". You can generate a premade landscape like that in minutes if there is no content or anything in it, its like drawing a picture that you cant interact with.
So the 2022 trailer showed savannah desert and dune desert. Savanah desert indeed exists in the game, it's in the state from the trailer, was added some time ago and Narc even made a video about it. This is the same part that Steven shows. But the dune desert from the latest update is nothing like the dune desert from 2022 trailer. Steven claims that Narc shows edge of the map, but game actually has invisible walls and You can't leave the playable area. Narc shows new playable content from latest update, content You can explore, new "node". It's nothing like the trailer, hence his video.
I think I finally got it… 🙄
This drama seems made up to boosts sales of the alfa keys. It might be working i might have to check it out on payday. Goddamnit!
Narc clearly and objectively misrepresented it or misspoke.
People here are talking about an expansion, but that was not what Narc said.
He said "this prompted people to FINALLY expect some remnants of the DESERT SHOWCASE that was shown in 2022, yet what we recieved was this, an empty wasteland"
He verbatum says the wasteland was there INSTEAD of the showcased content. His wording blatantly is saying the showcased content doesn't exist and that the showcase was fake.
He doesn't say anything about an expansion, he doesn't say the wasteland was the expansion, he only juxtaposes the wasteland directly to the 2022 showcase.
Was that what he meant? Idk. But it is what he said, and he then compared the game to other games that did that same thing, further cementing that message and not a message about an expansion.
I caught this stream late when Thor came on, and I already enjoyed the conversation on this topic. Now seeing what I had missed? This is easily one of my favorites so far! To hear the other side(s) of the situation is 1st rate content. Well done 👏🏼
What is being showcased ain't a desert. Maybe when Narc says desert he means an actual desert?
I don't think Narc understands how games of this scale are built. He expects that every asset and system are simultaneously developed in a single instance and there for if he has seen it then it should be there within the instance he was playing. Its more like creating a large quilt where every square is built as its own piece first and then the process of sewing them all together comes much later. I think when he makes the statement that him and his viewers understood better than anyone what it meant that they were buying into a development/technical alpha he couldn't have been more wrong. I think he was completely misunderstanding of what a development/technical alpha was and that he then spread that misunderstanding to his viewers which created an echo chamber within his viewership and is directly in line with the comment that Stephen made about the echo chamber he created. On the other side of it Thor (Pirate Software) is far more informed about how these games are developed and his expectations and thus his current impressions were much better about the current state of the game.
I think a lot of Narc's opinions are him projecting how he would do something on others rather than the reality of software development. The comments about why they wouldn't finish one biome first…not everyone has the same skill set, you have visual artists, musicians, developers working on each independent system from weather, to gathering, to skills, to the node system. Each of those systems is incredibly complex and on a team this size you wouldn't be cross training everyone on all of them so if one team finishes their work on one piece you can't just sideline them until the rest of the pieces in that biome are complete so you have them move on.
Gotta be honest. I'm not sure what to think about all of this, but this Steven guy seems like a genuine and caring dev.
What's the difference in Narc talking about something that doesn't exist now from 4 years ago.
I find it extremely hard to believe that Narc is unaware that a video he made for a YouTube channel he wants to make a career out of popped off and also hasn't seen the response of the biggest gaming personality in existence.
"Oh wow, I should put some ads on that huehue" like stfu dude
3:09:15 "All the things you saw was added in a month."
That's a very… disingenuous way to present things.
Yes, that thing was added in the period of a month…. AFTER 2 YEARS OF WAIT.
Let's not pretend they aren't producing these things in a month or that they are releasing that kind of content every months. I have no idea why he even thought he was making a point here.
If you skip to any point during the "A conversation with Steven" part of the video he sounds like a completely deranged grifter jesus christ Narc might be on to something
By comparison:
WoW 1(2004) took 4-5 years to develop. The budget was around 63million. With approximately only 50 developers. And launched right away with a small beta testing period.
Ashes has been in development for 7 years, they have made over 80 million from andys,
Now 63mil in 2004 is roughly equivalent to 105 million today. But lets not forget they've had more developers and more time to develop the game. As well as TONS of player feedback and bug reports from its pay to test😂 players from its many test periods.
In essence, ashes feels like a rip off and scam at this point.
Jesus asmon is using the most random shit to try and make an argument hahaha
@2:02:27It isn't a slanderous or libel statement as libel is print so your lacking of expertise in law is causing you to make false statements, and considering those false statements are accusations of legal infractions your statements are actually the ones that are slanderous. This game dev probably should have kept his mouth shut, but I am sure he is loving the extra attention his game is getting even if it is negative, just like Trump does.
I love watching Asmon's Judge Judy for Game videos, lol
59:32 is this piece of land stolen from apex legends??
DOWNLOAD MORE RAAAAAM!
The part that Steven is showcasing is a Savanna, not a desert. A savanna is a mixed woodland-grassland biome and ecosystem characterized by the trees being sufficiently widely spaced so that the canopy does not close. A desert does not have a river running through it. Intrepid needs to understand biome types in this specific example.
This narc dude has no idea how the sausage is made and has ZERO quotes that stand up to scrutiny of false advertising promises guaranteed in the alpha. Certified Grifter.
I am a big fan of AoC, and I don’t understand why it seems that such a large percentage of people are mad at them.
They have clearly and repeatedly stated:
– Alpha might not be for you.
– Alpha might not be super fun.
– It is to test certain systems on a larger scale.
– It is a real alpha.
– Yes, we do have professional quality testers as well.
– Don’t expect a finished game.
– System tests and data collection > new content.
– Content will be added.
– We have different stages of alpha.
– Don’t buy it if you feel uncertain.
– Don’t have overly high expectations.
– Step away from the game and feel free to come back when it’s in a more finished state.
etc.
We are in a rare situation where a game company is being transparent in its development, seeking constructive feedback from players (future customers) regarding the game’s design, mechanics, approach to both existing and new systems, game loops, etc. With this feedback, they can refine development to build a solid product that will be accepted by a large player base.
I don’t know if it’s people’s short attention span or their impatience.
Big projects take time. They require endurance. And believe it or not, you are just a regular person who’s perhaps been following this project for a few years only from an outside perspective. Naturally, your enthusiasm for something you aren’t directly involved in — and that hasn’t yet met your initial expectations — is limited. That’s completely normal. And guess what? You can sit back and relax, because the Ashes team is doing the work, and you can always come back later.
But if you are willing to spend money on alpha access, despite all of this information, and then complain that the “roadmap” for an alpha isn’t 100% matching the timeframe they once presented, or some features are missing, that’s not an issue with Ashes; it’s an issue with your perception and expectations. We are talking about an alpha (a creative development process), not a finished product with specific product descriptions and promises.
Steven and the entire Ashes of Creation Team, you are doing a great job!
Don’t let yourselves be upset by a few people who want to ride the negative social media cycle over and over with every game or product they come across. Your entire team is very passionate about the project, and it’s great to see that you give different team members a platform to showcase their work within Ashes.
I didn’t buy an alpha key, but I guess as soon as we are in the beta stage, I’ll join in.
Love to see Asmon throw away his credibility over a game in alpha…. keep pushing the narrative no matter the cost!
I do like Narc and I get where he's coming from but I feel like he is astoundingly off base with game development.
His frustrations aren't incorrect and I get where he's coming from but to suggest that there's not an internal test build is truly bizarre to me. I get that he doesn't follow Star Citizen but the server meshing update came out 2 weeks ago so "it's fictional technology that will never come out" is still a weird take
how i view it is. i spent 250 bucks in 2020 on a supporter pack that gives me a year of subscription paid for. it gives me like a stupid amount of premium currency for the cosmetic shop. it gives me every single alpha and beta access. and its an investment into the LAUNCH of the game. the year of sub and the premium currency are worthless until the game LAUNCHES so until the game launches who am I to criticize a development process that I dont even understand. like stephen said OF COURSE he could have communicated things better and every word he says will be picked apart etc. because hes open development and transparent hes getting random twitter or reddit posts picked apart by entire communities looking to prove that the game is out to steal your money… people need to dial it the fuck back. literally just wait until the game goes beta. once the game is beta then people will feel like they are getting their money worth because it will be feature complete
I usually like narc. But this video is just hate spam. Why are u trying to ruin something we can actually have a impact in. I actually cant understand why narc made this video. I like him but this is just disrespectful and disingenuous.
100% behind Steve and really looking forward to AOC. Their transparency I respect and i am not a fan of the very odd Narc videos.
Tip for Narc: If you don't want to sound defensive and like YOU'RE the one who's not understanding the point of the conversation, stop cutting people off to make sure you are understood. Too busy trying to be understood to sound like you even understand the questions or points Asmon is making to you, which forces him to repeat or reapproach the questions from different angles. When he has to repeat things for you like that, it makes you seem either too agitated to logically process what's being asked, too wrong about what you're assuming you would be asked or too dense to comprehend what you're being asked. Either way, it makes you look bad.
Detective asmon is on the case
i gotta say, i wasnt sure about this on a game id like kind of basis, but now im 100% going to at least try this out on release after hearing this dude speak. good luck in the rest of the developement, i wish you all the best. im excited to try AoC out in a few years. take care
I have not played Alpha 2 – When I watched Narc's video, I got the impression that NONE of what we saw during the desert biome demo was in the game WHATSOEVER. Regardless of whether what was shown was in the game during A2 Phase 1, or expanded in A2 Phase 2, the reality is that what we saw during the desert biome demo IS in the game. Narc made it sound like the desert biome demo was just a fake world slice built for marketing purposes and didn't exist at all. This claim is categorically false.
The guy criticising AoC is literally playing the game for his job, of course he's going to reach the end of the content if he plays it for 6 months straight 18 hours a day, lmao
dude this is such a toss up, can't decide which outweighs the other – the free advertising or the disparaging
Star Citizen fans are sitting here like, you been waiting how long? Hold my beer kid. Incomplete promises??? Let me tell you a story.