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In this video we take a look at the successful Beta for Amazons upcoming MMORPG New World, and figure out what lessons could be learned by Intrepid Studios that they could then apply to their upcoming MMO, Ashes of Creation.
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I like the idea , and could be mold into the system IS is willing to go for their gathering.
If we say that the Alpha map got 50k tree and there is 150k places where tree can spawn , than the Portal area could run out of tree and force players to go further to get them.
But don't know how much stress it will put on the server :/
PS: I understand now, why you said I got it backward 😉
I think new world style gathering would work just fine in ashes. Players will have limited gatherable carry capacity so it doesn't matter how abundant the resources are, as long as they are regionalised. Players will still need to travel afar if they want to gather exotic materials, and deal with the risks and challenges associated with trying to transit large quantities to other marketplaces around the world. Economy is about supply and demand, so sure your local economy may have redwood lumber and a particular herb growing out it's nose (because that's the biome you live in), but somewhere else in the world it may be as rare as gold dust.
Maybe Steven modeled the farming just like Archeage, where you can have an illegal farm in the most hidden places across the world. Which suites the risk vs reward gameplay of AOC
You make some interesting and reasonable points about resource gathering and the Caravans system. I would like to offer a counter arguement for you to consider. There are some very different factors in AoC that make the NW gathering and crafting systems unsuitable for the AoC model. The different capitalisation models of the game are very relevant in this conversation and need to be taken into account when comparing the systems.
NW does not really want players to be able to make too much premium currency from a player driven economy or people wont buy enough from the cash shop which the box price/no sub model will require to keep the game solvent. The NW crafting system is quite deliberately designed to be really engaging for a month or two then to have as little in game value as possible in order to make ongoing cash shop purchases more attractive to the player base. Crafting is essentially meant to be peripheral fun rather than a core game driver.
The AoC sub model means that gathering and crafting is intended to be the pivot point in player interaction and is meant to create meaningful, player driven social dynamics in the game. In many ways it is the single most important underlying system in the game. Even if every other facet of AoC is great, if the economy does not work, there will be nothing to fight over.
T1 resources are the most important to get really well balanced in a player driven economy. For caravans to be both attractive to produce and defend or profitable/strategic targets, the shipments must have real value. If T1 resources are too abundant and caravans are `spamable`, transporting them will not be profitable enough for people to want to move them or attack them leading to shortages in areas where they are not abundant because they are not worth moving or an over abundance everywhere if they are not worth attacking and the bloated market making gathering them a valueless time sink.
A high abundance of T1 resources would be more likely to lead to players spending less time out in the world trying to find and gather them because there would be too little profit to make the risk worth the reward. An abundance of T1 resource would also spoil the plan to have rich, large gathering nodes becoming contested points of PvP interest.
Gathering and crafting in AoC is supposed to be as much a play style niche as PvE raiding, PvP group content, Bounty Hunting, Pirating, Homesteading or Trading is. Finding the right balance where gathered resources are always relevant and valuable will be one of the most important core drivers of AoC. There would not be dedicated nodes with boosts and buffs specific to it if that was not the case.
It will be really interesting to see exactly what AoC does with the gathering and crafting systems. I suspect that with all the possibilities and niches within the game once it all starts to come together the variety and complexity of the systems will provide an equally interesting and engaging structure but one that is very, very different from the NW experience.
Hey .. I like the scripted content. Good job! I think you do both well. They certainly have their specific uses. This was one of the great uses of scripted content.
Also, greetings from the Wolfpack! Hope to see you in New World while we wait for Ashes.
I think there should be danger in harvesting which is why I like to earn my harvesting ability and leveling matters. One item you said I dislike is NW you can turn off PVP. Not a fan of planned PVP or PVP by agreement. Having consequences for PVP both the attacker and defender is more fun or as you may say "immersive". Funny that you want to turn off PVP and yet want to be immersed in gathering. Not sure you can have it both ways. Pick one or the other.
Love the video but first point you make doesn't make any sense at all…at least in the context or lack of it that you presented it in. Third point…. please stop comparing NW to AoC, where the gathering systems are so vastly different you could write a book. Plus i don't think that in this alpha they put a lot of ephasis on gathering or crafting, just saying >.>
great video, still not sure if I agree with gathering. Flooding the game with materials. To me it makes more sense to fight over an area that might have good mats. The immersion factor of it is nice, but the longer term systems of crafting will be more important down the line i think
100% agree!
Another suggestion: raise the amount of materials for crafting by the same multiple that they raise the gathering nodes. So if it currently takes 1 log to craft an item, but it takes a while just to find 1 tree, they can multiply the tree gathering nodes by 10 and also raise the crafting requirement to 10 logs.
I say don’t copy it. New World will become Old World very quickly IMO. The immersion is nice but there just can’t be that many resources in AoC. Remember New World has had profession boosts in their back pocket this entire time. The profession triangle is barely even in the AoC alpha. Maybe New World style gathering could be used for upgrading nodes, clearing space for the upgraded perimeter. Just keeping chugging along on this one Intrepid, focus elsewhere.
You hit it on the head! Man, this is exactly what I was talking with you about yesterday. I could not have said it better myself. Love it!
I can't play New World, absolute motion sickness within a few minutes. I had to refund it yesterday.
Just augment the amount of ressource needed or decrease the amount of ressource harvested. Here, your scarcity of ressources problem solved
Excellent points!
Interesting compare and contrast.
I don't see NW holding interest for very long, a month maybe…tips. The map for one isn't that big to begin with from what I've seen. Yes, it's gorgeous and all, bit I see people burning out after 3 weeks, unless they expand the world map?
Two, for the size of Vera at launch, I wouldn't even want to count the numner of trees that would have to be placed in the world not to even mention the number of rocks…I don't know if a server could handle it. NW gets away with it because of the map size. I have all the faith in Steven's design, but we will see.
Ashes gathering and crafting is only about 10 percent iterated…
I think the melee attack animation lock also feels bad in new world but I see how it makes sense in an action combat game to balance that ranged attacks are harder to hit than melee attacks. Missing your target is punishing because you have to completele the animation. But it just feels so out of place in a tab combat game where ranged weapons hit automatically.
I like those ideas, you might be on to something
In fact, if Ashes' Gathering/Crafting is not as good and rewarding as New World's, I will not go to Ashes although I have already paid more for Ashes than for New World.
i just hope they put the gathering system in aoc. i think we've always wanted this system in aoc
Really liked this video man, to me it's maybe your best. Liked how you gave and explained your opinion on the topics. Well done. 🙂
Ps. The comment the "God has blessed this tree" was also quite funny. ;D
3:50 and that is exactly why I hate this system. It distracts me from what I wanna do. And it also makes me think I'm missing out on all the resources around me. Right now I much prefer AoC's system, but I just think that it can be done better visually or through better UI (which will obviously come in later testing phases).
Crafting made the list, as it should. In my view the focus on crafting should be just as high as combat. Most crafting appears as an after thought or just something thrown in. I am looking for for a MMO where crafting and combat are equally weighted.
I think biome-locked resources is one of the most important elements to this game. The further you have to travel for the resources, the more money you can make, and more caravans will be out there for the taking as you say. Also, the harder to get the materials for a crafted item, the more you will cherish and care for the item. And the more you care about something in a game, the better the game is.
If ashes doesn't incorporate nw style gather everything, it's going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth who have tasted the best gathering of all time in NW