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If you ask 10 players what Griefing is, you will probably get 10 different answers. The truth is, griefing is something that is going to occur in every MMORPG, but not every negative thing that happens to you is you being griefed. You got killed randomly? That doesn’t mean that you were griefed, it means you were killed in an open world PVP game with flagging options and a penalty system. Sadly, a lot of players will claim everything negative that happens to them is griefing. Should those concerns be addressed? Or should the vocal minority be ignored and a good penalty system be put in place to discourage griefing, but if it happens it happens?
This is based off the Dev Discussion #39 on the Official Forums: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/51714/dev-discussion-39-griefing/p1
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Timestamps
00:00 – Video Start
00:28 – Post Intro
00:52 – What do you consider acceptable behavior in an MMO or PvP-based situation, and where do you draw the line at “griefing”?
02:20 – That is not karma bombing
03:03 – Those are not YOUR resources
04:19 – Intent Matters
11:45 – Having an actual objective means its not griefing
12:35 – Exploting bugs isn’t griefing its cheating
14:05 – Getting Killed does not mean you were griefed
source
IT should Not bei Stopped
I feel that any area that is camped by higher level players to kill lower players at respawn points, rare mob spawns, or resource nodes(unless random spawn node) is griefing. The griefer is taking advantage of a game mechanic knowing the spawn will occur at that location and that a character has to go to that location in order to progress. It forces lower level players into danger and rewards high level players who are taking no risk (Corruption System in AOC will help with this as would nodes not spawning in the same spot.) Attacking a caravan on a trail is not griefing because the attack can occur anywhere on the trail although there should be an option to deviate from the trail if an ambush is suspected at a choke point (ie take a longer route). This would happen on EVE online where you know a particular gate might be camped so you had to go around using different warp gates. I wouldn't count attacking a player at a resource spawn (temporary ore vein) as griefing unless you know that spawn is going to occur at that particular spot. A exception to people griefing nodes would be a fixed node gathering spot like a mine that doesn't unspawn as players would want to compete for that resource so its expected higher level players will kill lower level players to control the node at that location. Caravans should also allow the assistance of higher level players who serve as guards for the caravan. Thus you could attack a lower level caravan on a route but you might also encounter high level players escorting that low level caravan. You get what you pay for in regards to caravan security. In regards to towns I think Mayors should be able to set PvP or no PvP for inside buildings like Taverns. It would be annoying in social spots or crafting areas of low or mid level players to have high level players crash in and slaughter people and then leave. Don't have issue with attacks in a town in general just in social or crafting spots as it would be too disruptive. Obviously this is directed toward murder hobos and not not sieges of course.
Can someone answer me to this: I know ways of 'karma bombing' from L2, but it's kinda different from what about PGN talks.
There are really mechanic in BDO, when you cast AoE skill (unforced) in area of flagged player, which kills even unflaged players? Is this really how it works in BDO? Or they missing autoforce to flagged players? I don't get it, how it can works in this way.
In L2, you can do this, but when you cast aoe spell in area of purple player, you attack only that one which is purple, if you wanna attack even non-flagged players, you have to add 'force' switch throught Control key. Or there must be met another conditions to be in auto-force status. But you can't do it in that described way.
One solution that old school MMOs had was different server types. A pvp server with loot drops being separate from a PvE server with structured PvP is a good compromise. The biggest problem with PvP griefing is classes are always imbalanced, meaning player based solutions can sometimes be impossible. If that happens, you lose the player being griefed. The game isnt fun, so they stop playing. That leaves you with griefers trying to grief each other. Whomever keeps losing also stops having fun and leaves. The game dies pretty quickly from mass exodus. This is why an MMO like WoW is still alive and ones like Conan and Warhammer are dead.
Hell no it shouldn't be stopped. Phone a friend, c'mon back and get you some!! If you can't get even then it's time to go some where else for the time being.
Talking at 14:00 into the vid
Its the confusion of "Why was I killed?" that I think could be cleared with proximity chat.
You see someone that you need gone, you could either kill them or you could warn them to leave audibly and if they don't respond kill them just as you would anyway. If they hear you and decide to run, then they live and understand. MMOs are social games. Violence is one form of social interaction. However adding voice chat adds a whole new aspect of interacting with other players. If you're looking for a resource and see someone about to mine something you need, you could start attacking and then verbally let them know this one is yours and you will kill them for it. This allows fast communication without either of you needing to sacrifice time to type. This lets the other player quickly judge whether or not fighting for the resource is worth it and gives them the option to back off, let you take it and live.
This is an easy one,yes it should be stopped but no it's can't be fully stopped griefing is just a part of the mmo community now and has been for an unfortunately long time. If you give people the chance to ruin someone else's day some will always take the chance,and despite the "balance" put in place people always find a way around any system to keep it down.
I agree that Karthos covered the subject pretty well, I almost didn't post anything on the forum because I couldn't improve on his post. I stopped and considered how I would deal with it and posted that as my response.
If a player or group of players are inconveniencing me or my guild then we would take steps to resolve or mitigate that inconvenience. This is regardless of how anyone decides to define "griefing". If necessary the issue would be addressed through our diplomatic channels to other alliances and a collective response would be taken.
Bad / broken game mechanics will be reported to Intrepid via the community forums. Then Intrepid have to judge if it's a Care Bear Butt-Hurt whinge or a real problem. I wouldn't expect a fast response to modify game mechanics unless there was a massive outrage of single themed opinion from the community. Mitigation at guild and extended discord alliance level would be the best working solution until a mechanic is formally fixed by Intrepid. At best we might end up with an agreement at Server level between the major alliances, but that depends on a lot of likeminded thinking and coordination.
Well as long as there a consequences i'm fine with it and archeage is a failure for that imo.
Put a bounty system for those who kill a green player (green player cannot turn themself to purple during combat to avoid item drop penalty), including a whole party/raid if they gank and kill 1 or more green player, immidiately put all of them under corruption.
Make a bounty hunter NPC that will track and caught those corrupted player by hunting them down across the majority of map by paying a certain amount of fee to mobilize the NPC (the attack from bounty hunter NPC can' kill the corrupted player but capture and put them on jail when their HP goes below 10%). Give a reward for other player who manage to kill that corrupted player (their name listed across the available location for player to know if they are a wanted criminal) and if the corrupted player die by other player, 1 of their equipment is guaranteed to drop and they can't respawn back to pick it up.
The bigger their corruption score/rate or whatever it is, the higher their accumulated debuff from being corrupted is, so the more crime they did without being caught by consequences/justice, the weaker they become as well as EXP penalty (until they receive a certain amount of exp to pay all of those penalty back, they can't level up and the debuff combat stat/damage reduction will stay)
Allow a player to hire a mercenary that will protect them during journey as long as they stay green and not on purple/corrupted status. (to make it harder for those solo criminal)
a corrupted player can't acess any kind of public NPC service except on a certain area.
Of course the debuff and exp penalty only affect those who are not affiliated with evil religious and they probably gain a buff instead if they are affiliated with an evil religious. Those who affiliated with evil religion will gain a debuff if they are not under corruption status (if get caught by an NPC or killed by a-non evil religious, their buff tier goes down)
An evil believer get their accumulated corruption reduced if they kill the same evil believer and gain corruption if they kill a non-evil believer. Their accumulated corruption get reduced every day for a certain amount of point so it force them to do crime (or a daily quest to increase corruption)
So, it will be a smart decision to convert into evil religion if the player plan on role-playing as a criminal.
There is no way to remove corruption until they die by other player or spent their time inside a confinement/jail (to avoid equipment drop penalty) or REPENT for those who plan on changing to a non evil religion for a certain amount of time and can't escape by any other mean other than staying online for the duration penalty.
a green player who are not affiliated with evil-religion gain a righteous buff instead and get reduced every time they turn themself into purple status to a void item drop penalty when killed by other player) and gain a certain stat buff depending their accumulated righteous point every day or by doing a good daily quest that rewarding them righteous point or by hunting down corrupted player.
Damnit past me, why must you procrastinate so much? You are the worst.
I like the idea of being able to set parameters for aoe not hitting targets less than level X.
@ventharien https://youtu.be/KGnbfXPjkqw?t=96 How does Present you feel about this?!
Random question, can you even flag on fellow node citizens?
I see here that people are so spoiled by other MMOs that they think any annoying player behavior is considered griefing. And I hope those people don't play the game when it releases.
This is an open-world pvp game. If you don't want to play a pvp game, don't play ashes. I'm not even that big on pvp myself but even I realize that if I don't want to pvp that day, I can either not play or stay in a node where there are guards to protect me as I do my chores.
Many of the pvp player behaviors are also going to be policed to a degree by other players through the bounty hunting system. If you get killed by for whatever reason and they get flagged, you can expect bounty hunters to show up and take care of it since they get rewarded for doing so.
People who think corruption isn't a big deal, then they clearly didn't play the Alpha. Also as a pvp-er, looking for reds was my favourite thing to do in the Alpha.
is running/participating a player killer(corrupted) guild considered to be griefing?