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Ashes of Creation is an open world MMORPG set in a fantasy environment where you can choose different classes and races to adventure through with your friends. Intrepid Studios is the developer behind the game. They’re technically an indie studio, but their creative director Steven Sharif has a clear vision for his video game: Massively Multiplayer Role Playing Game. He wants to put the massive back in MMO. Exploring dungeons, griding for gear, crafting armor/weapons, learning new spells, and competing in large scale PvP battles. High end PvE such as raids will mainly occur in the open world. Bosses will spawn and roam through the land. Are YOU ready to enter the world of Verra?
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The only two classes that matter are Bard & Bard/Bard. Trust me on this.
Just 8 Classes 👍
It’s all about how they design augments.
We know that each subbed class will augment main skills under 4 categories per class.
Example: tank/rouge
Tank abilities lets you mitigate damage. But if you augment the damage mitigation with rouge evasion augment then you have an evasion tank and not damage mitigation tank.
So let’s use rouge as an example sub class.
Its augment types will be poison, mobility, critical hits, and stealth.
Pair each with Tank Aegis. Provides a shield to all players behind tank.
Poison aegis- after aegis also poison nearby foes to do less damage.
Mobility aegis- after aegis ends everyone gets movement buff
Stealth aegis- while aegis is active, everyone is invisible.
Critical hit aegis- party affected by aegis do extra crit damage.
All example theories but if you apply the logic to other skills then you can imagine how they can do it.
My concern is how long it will take to do this for all 8 classes plus skills plus animations.
I was always saying AoC had 8 classes with multiple skill trees each.
I've changed my view on this: AoC has 0 classes until it actually releases.
I refuse to delude myself any longer that there would actually be anything worthy discussing about until the creators consider it a finished product and you as a customer could expect to actually get delivered that.
Ummm… Most of Bard's abilities are heals so there are 2 healer archetypes. Though between those 2 the clear winner (better healer) is the cleric.
Ok one more theory. Addressing the one healer situation. Clerics can still heal the best but may have added affects.
Let’s say it’s a cleric/mage and we want to augment healing touch.
Mage augments will be under
Fire, lightning, ice, arcane
Fire touch- after arrival you let out a air fire that applies burning to nearby foes
Lightning touch- after arrival does shock in aoe staggering nearby foes
Ice touch- same thing but chills nearby foes.
Arcane touch- same thing but debuffs nearby foes.
The ability still heals but maybe this particular player can heal and help stack elemental procs.
Looking forward to maining Cleric and alting Bard as a support healer in Alpha 2. I heal in every game I play.
world of warcraft model for classes would be hella snooze fest ZZzzzZZ everyone the same
In essence, we have four primary gameplay roles: tank, healer, ranged DPS, and melee DPS. Within AoC, these roles are distributed among the eight primary archetypes, where only one archetype is dedicated to healing and one to tanking. The remaining six archetypes naturally represent the two DPS roles. When these archetypes branch into the 64 classes, the fundamental gameplay types remain the same, with each class offering variations within those core roles. This ensures that while there’s plenty of customization and variety, the core mechanics and roles that players are familiar with are maintained.
I dont think its a good idea to think of the "classes" as classes. The class identity is in the first archetype you choose whilst the secondary is the flavor in which you want to play that archetype.
i think the augment system actually could help balancing the game.
imagine fighters antiheal is way too busted in pvp so everyone wants to have a lot of fighters in their group.
but now u can also bring any other class with 2nd archetype fighter to have acess to antiheal.
next i observe ppl dont give much credit to equipment and skill points (one can not get all skills of an archtype)
will a cleric/fighter realy be so much different then a cleric/bard?
well if first has heavy armor shield and 2nd has light armor staff it would make sense they prefer different abilitys to spend their skillpoints into
so even without augments they are quite different
Hmmm, I think the mage, cleric, and tank are getting a rework before A2 if I'm not mistaken, eh?
Anywho, coming from my own ttrpg helping with design..I sure as hades wouldn't want to do 64 different types. That's just a nightmare at first glance. Then you see how they are going to approach it, and you go, yeah, this won't be too hard. I just hope it lets each class feel unique enough.
My favorite class of all time was Rifts Warlock. It was so much fun to play. Dont know if you've ever looked at Rifts talent trees…there were indepth and hella fun. Too bad their management and owners made horrible decisons and killed the game. I left Wow for it and never reqgretted it.
Great video as usual!
I think we need multiple healers and tanks.
WoW got it right with the diverse classes, ashes could expand on that.
What wow messed up was giving every class the same utility. That's where ashes can shine and really help players specialise.
I disagree strongly on all classes being the same for the first 25 levels. The kits will be different due to skillpoint allocation is what I understood.
As for the healers: i dont care if it's just one class if you can spec it distinctly differentiating proactive vs reactive and single target vs group/aoe heal.
Ive plyed a gamr called conquer they had a system where u can rebirth and pick another class and h take certain skills and traits from your old class and it helps u become stronger / different.
I think what people fail to understand is by it prolly arent 64 super fleshed out characters but more of 8 characters with 8 build routes. I also play eden eternal that also had a system like that u could combine 2 classes lets sam samurai and archer and y mix and match traits. I think aoc is on to somsthing good here.
I am excited to see what the Summoner will be able to do in terms of heals. Summoner will supposedly be able to fill gaps in the party based on the summon. So I'm expecting it to be (much) better than Bard, and good enough in place of a Cleric but with less healing options or maybe more HOT focused. Once secondary archetypes unlock, Necromancer (Summoner/Cleric) should be an excellent pick in place of a Cleric primary archetype depending on skill point allocation and augments, of course.
Classes aren’t going to be perfect. I’ve never played a single MMO in 20 yrs where they were. I think it’s great they’re trying something new and if it works it works and if it doesn’t…well they’ll adjust it.
I think we should give these hard working developers with years if experience in both making and playing games the benefit of the doubt. Maybe try avoiding saying overly simplified statements along the lines of “if it’s not exactly how I imagine it it should be” or “if it isn’t perfect” they should throw the idea in the trash.
I think it will end up being 8 classes with 8 different themes. The secondary contribution will be mostly cosmetic or extremely minor.
If they do try to make them 64 very unique classes this game isn't coming out for another 10+ years.
cleric/summoner=shaman if its anything like everquest sign me up:)
I think they should go with the small customizations based on the secondary archetype, but also allow you to add 3-4 skills from the second class to your hotbar options.
I see CCs who are very vocal about not wanting the 64 class system, to them I say: Ashes is not nodes, it's not open world pvx, it's not the augment system, it's all of it, remove one and it will stop being the game ppl supported.
On the other hand calling it 64 classes is stupid, it's more like the combination of base archetype skill tree, gear and weapons will define your build, and augments will allow you to personalize your skills with a lot of option, given many will be trsh or very off-meta, but well, it is what it is.
Regarding roles, I expect bard and summoner to offer some variation for off-healing and off-tanking, or even acting as main on low-man content.
still love this video series. i like that youre now asking questions to help get deeper thoughts
Do secondary archetype's also augment the visuals of your abilities, or is it only passives?
No offense to Roar but the second he said "World of Warcraft model" I basically shut my brain off.. this is the same thing as a boomer who played Pac-Man complaining that games are in 3D nowadays.. the future is now old man.
i think 64 is perfectly fine those 2nd classes wont change that much tbh if basic 8 classes are somehow balanced they can balance mixed ones aswell and tbh some abilitys they were shown withs some classes feel really useless and are made to be upgraded with 2nd class like that slow lightning ball on mage..
The more I watch these ashes ask vids the more I feel like you all want to hate this game, play wow if you want wow , let ashes do there own thing
The 8×8 class system in Ashes would REALLY benefit from a Dragon Warrior style class system where you level classes independently from character level and then combine basic classes to create multi classes.
I think some class combos are going to be a huge difference (think summoner/cleric= necro) and some other combos won’t have much impact at all.
Nah. The very first guy started with, "A Charge is a Charge is a Charge. No matter if it becomes a Blink because of the Teleport augment or not, it's still a charge".
Proposes scenario where having your Charge becoming a Blink/Teleport is beneficial
"Well it depends on what kind of Charge it is"
This is literally the first 2mins of the video.
Mate… What? Lmao. That alone made me immediately realize there's probably nothing of substance here at all in these questions / discussions, huh.
I see the augments being like morphs in eso. If that's the case then the class will feel different enough to be their own classes. They don't need to add brand new skills for it to feel different
wouldnt surprise me if they just made another skill tree for the secondary archtypes much like WoW talents but you get 8 instead of 3 specs which alter base spells and potential a couple new skills for that archtype
My opinion is that there are not 64 classes.
KS Backer here. I think the 64 class system was one of the things that most excited me about the game when I initially backed it all those years ago along with the node system. Now that we're here in 2024 I would say it makes me increasingly nervous. I'm a main healer and have been for 20 years now more or less. I have two healing fantasies about how a healer plays for me to not get bored; War Cleric (Templar in this case) and Druids (Shaman is probably the closest). If the augment system works like I HOPE it will, I should be able to achieve either of those playstyles; a frontline heavy armored healer with many proximity heals, buffs, holy enchanted strikes, and smites (Sword and Shield or polearm weapon for me) or a more ranged HoT/Direct heal based healer (staff) with a nature aesthetic (I'll play py'rai to get those augments too). As we have not really seen this in action in game I'm not sure they will be able to make both viable via augments. The balancing issues it would create seem daunting for 64 unique feeling classes. At this point, I'd almost prefer specs that are more fleshed out with unique skill trees as I think that would be an easier system. For example – Clerics can be Templars (Magic/Melee), High Priest (Primary Casters – Direct heals/smites), or Shamans (Magic/Melee w/ HoT focus) or with Summoners – Warlocks (DoTs, Debuffs & Demonic Pets with niche skills i.e sleep, stuns, etc), Conjurors (Elemental Pets/Direct Dmg Spells both via pets and caster), Necromancers (DoTs, Undead Pets with Skills that can fill other roles like undead clerics, tanks, ranged dps etc)
I think augments adding flavour for the dps classes will be fine, but for the tank and healer, the augments really need to make the class feel different. Only having one tank and one healer feels weird to me just as roar said.
I invision the class system as having only 8 distinct classes with distinct identities. The secondary classes will customize the playstyle of the main class. So in reality, there are only 8 classes which are manageable.
MOBAs can balance over 100 very unique heroes. On top of that the whole itemization, facets, shards etc. Balancing 64 district (not unique) classes should be doable.
They need to add 5 more types
First guy WOW ANDY.. pathetic
Whoever said “give me the world of Warcraft model”.. go ahead and call intrepid.. cancel your keys.. and go play WoW
our developers who aren't working on this game and are merely giving their opinion about how hard it would be…. lol kinda silly. jumping on the doom hype. buddy tried to make this video as fast as he could to keep up with the trends rofl. i hate content creators
I don't like the cleric fantasy, but love healers. So, if the subclass won't have an aesthetic change in animation and effects, I'll probably just go bard (or dps /cry).
I wish the subclasses would determine the role, and main class the fantasy, rather than the other way around.
For example, if you start as a ranger, but want to heal – grab the cleric subclass and be a sort of druid. Tank? Grab the tank subclass and be a forest warden or something.
That way people will be "stuck" with their core fantasy, but not with a role. Obviously, it will mean the 8 subclasses can be scrapped, in favor of a few that make sense.
Healer, tank, support and ranged/melee dps.
I explain the 64 class system as 8 classes, and 8 specs or morphs. You have your base class and that is what you do, your second choice modifies how you do that. As for cleric being the only healing class, we do have the bard for “augmenting healing” but it’s not going to replace a full cleric in a group. A good group comp will have a cleric and a bard and the bard will be switching between supporting the dps, and high damage situations helping the healer, it’s essentially the true hybrid. I want augments to do more for the cleric, there just isn’t much in the clerics kit that is really enticing to me as a healer main.