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In today’s video I discuss all of the controversy that has revolved around the Ashes of Creation AMA where a lot of bigger content creators discuss bundle price. In this video I go through why that discussion is overblown and doesn’t make much sense when you look at the history of Intrepid.
What is more concerning imo, is the poor communication that has happened the last few months, which is something I agree with Asmongold on in his video. In my opinion this is more due to the deadline of a2 because Intrepid’s communication the last two years has been phenomenal, and the last 2-3 months have not been great.
A link to my bundle video from 7 months ago can be found here:
https://youtu.be/BEug4LaBI3k?si=M_vI0PWGJPLx0T0N
A link to Asmongold’s video can be found here:
https://youtu.be/vWZHOxgOo_c?si=H0MmW8Vr7WUvfmvy
A link to Force Gaming’s tweet can be found here: https://x.com/ForceStrategy/status/1825165836409045315
A link to the January 2023 Stream Saying they have 100k A2 buyers can be found here at 10:57 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2D_6FLZ51k&t=677s
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:35 Where I disagree with Asmongold
5:53 Alpha 2 In 2023 Has 100k testers
7:00 The Gaming Community is Polarized on Paying for Alphas
8:08 Making A2 free is bad business for Intrepid
9:02 Force Gaming on Twitter
12:00 My thoughts on the Original Bundles
13:27 In Summary
15:10 Intrepid’s communication Was Bad
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On Force's comment about raising funds from private investors:
Seriously?
…
Are we really coming back to square one with game development? Yes, I wonder why Intrepid is trying to avoid inviting in some form of private equity to fund their MMO and potentially risk being beholden to thier desire to see whatever rate of return satisfies them.
While we're at it, how about we let Ubisoft publish the game lol.
The Kickstarter was fine. The pre ordrr packs were also fine. Giving the alpha and beta away for free would have also been fine. I dont think anyone thinks NOW they should give it away for free. No one thinks thats reasonable. I think he probably meant they should have from the start.
I dont have an issue with the pre orders because it gave an almost equal amount of cash shop currency, skins, and game sub time. The issue was taking the pre order packs down and trying to ONLY sell us an alpha for 120. That was a disgusting joke.
They have relented but the way they should have gone about it is put the 250 pack back up, and then sold alpha and beta access for like 100 bucks along side it.
You only talked about half of Force Gaming's tweet. You focused all your attention on the "price doesn't include game" part. But his other point stands – you are literally paying to be a QA tester. That is just a bad/weird look. Imagine someone saying: "I need help with my shipping business. You can pay $100 to do some labor for me, sorting packages, labeling them, and the warehouse work".
Had they communicated in a straightforward way: "Guys we need more money for development, this is how you can support us" it would have been fine. But this whole: "We suddenly need more QA testers, pay us $120 to work for us" is just off-putting.
It also doesn't make logical sense. You have a bunch of QA testers who pay you money to test your game but that is apparently only useful for alpha2 phase. So you make them pay again to participate in beta. This shit makes no sense. They should have just called spade a spade – we need money, support us. Boom, a quick 2 minute segment on the livestream, done. Instead we got what we got.
it's another star citizen , this game will never be out , save yourself the trouble and the money it's not worth it
You're very first issue is already a misunderstanding.
You claim Azmon say's that the proper price point should be free, but that's not what he said. He simply said that the price that would make everyone happy would be free. Which is objectively true, customers all love when they get something for free.
You can absolutely give slots for a testing phase for free, or for a more accessible price. Buying access early only guarantee's access, it doesn't guarantee that the price won't change. They don't have to, but in choosing not to you're going to have to accept that a lot of people are going to complain that the price is too high. Cost of doing business.
Also the Kickstarter wasn't just selling access to the testing phase, the point was to fund the game. The game has been funded. Now you're just selling access to a short beta test for over 100 bucks, that's insane.
I just wish they'd wait until A2 starts before selling more keys. We've already got 100k players and their servers are only supposed to hold around 18k at the start. Let's wait for queue times to come down before adding more people
I think they made the price too reasonable tbh, it's actually tempting to buy in now.
Beta One Key backers from days gone by are now F'd hard by the new keys.
They should not have added any further "Value" to the keys they were offering.
Now they're going to need to add 1mo sub fee to all the previous packages to balance.
Asmongold and logic… he reacted to Sabine Hossenfelder's very misconstrued strawman of flat earth instead of the actual flat earth arguments
Game devs and better communication, name a better duo.
A little much ? you don't even get a copy of the game for that. It's nothing short of a scam.
Why does it matter if you invested first? In the end the goal is for everyone to have and enjoy a great MMO, not be first to play an unfinished product.
I personally don’t care if I invested in kickstarter only for them to give out it out free later so long as it was good for the end result. That is all that should matter to everyone.
You misrepresented Asmon's argument. He never said he thinks the price point "should" be free. He responded to Steven saying that no price would make everyone happy by saying that free is the only way everyone would be happy, and he's right.
Love it No1. Glad I can sit here and agree with ya =).
I have been watching this game for many years. And I don’t see the value of this game . The more it looks like nostalgia not a new cool game . They have not earned my money yet .
Honestly I don't think its okay to sell something that isn't ready especially since these testers are testing the game for you to make sure things work as intended, or at the very least not make it 100+ bucks but as long as there is a split the the gaming community things like this will happen but it is what it is.
I don't actually think people are mad about the paying to be a Q&A tester I think its more the fact they have to pay a lot of money to pay something they love, which is mmorpgs. In my opinion I believe you can just not pay the money like a crazed consumer and be patient. It's very easy if you're not impulsive.
Force didn't think there's a box cost, he clearly meant that you have to pay on launch for your sub since the key has no launch game time included.
Just here to say i am clpn
I'm pretty sure the main criticism is that they're selling alpha keys without access to the full game release but u glossed over it cuz forcegaming didnt realize its a sub game. it doesnt matter if its a box cost or sub. it should at the very minimum give 1-2 months of gametime. the whole premise of buying a pre-order pack was the bonuses included in it such as embers, cosmetics, etc. that's why me and everyone i know bought a preorder pack. so i thought it would be fair that if they sell keys again, they would only be selling alpha keys that include the base gametime that the $75 pre-order pack had, which was 2 months
Imo they went too far in the other direction. I bet many would buy new deal instead if they knew it was coming since arguably keys hold the majority of the value. I'm one of them.
thank you for adding context. theyre allergic to it.
cope
The issue isn't charging for a while, then making it available for free, it's charging for people to be testers in the first place. Just because 100k people are stupid enough to pay to test the game, doesn't make the whole thing not a scumbag move. Pre-orders and Early Access are one thing, and those are bad enough these days, but charging for an alpha test with no actual benefit, is a great way to prove that you only care about fleecing your community.
Testing a product should never be the only thing you are paying for that is a non-starter for me and many more.
Great video @No1. I agree about the different ways of looking at the peoples reactions. Yes, in my opinion there are 2 different camps. The ones that are willingly purchasing the things like kickstart, bundles, and packs knowing that they are funding the game. They realize that the game is a long way off. The other camp looks at the game as monetary, and values the money they put in and want the return for their money. I understand both arguments. Its just the way individuals look at it. The problem I have with this whole thing is both camps inability to understand each others points of views and have a logical discussion. When asmond makes a video, he only presents his side of the argument, but he does an honest opinion from his side and gives props when deserved. I wish he would have discussions with other people on his show to debate it instead of just causing so much turmoil. Now Narc, I wish he would consider his tone. I understand it might be the way he does his show, but if you engage in chat with him, in his show, and you are not in line with his thinking, he just bans you from the show. Again, I just wish everyone would have a discussion instead of all the vitriol. One more time, great show bud.
People have been conditioned to see unfinished games as early access. This isn't early access. It's a legit alpha. It's about testing, not consuming content as fast as possible just to get that dopamine hit. They only want people to join the alpha who are invested in the game and will actually act as alpha testers. They also don't want to screw people over who already paid a lot of money. On top of that, they now have over 200 employees, with another couple of years before a finished game is released. Overhead/paychecks costs a comoany a lot. There is no other income as there is no game to sell to the masses. Stephen said, "Don't pay unless you know what you're getting into." He wasn't acting like a sleezy used car dealer trying to rip you off. People are idiots. Don't like it? Don't play. It's really that simple. The people who are angry are showing how obsessed they are with the game by letting their emotions go unchecked. A person who doesn't care is indifferent.
No, ashes of creation needs to die. even in the best case scenario that this game releases and becomes the best game ever (won't happen in a 1000 years) they still set a bad precedent for all future games. their studio needs to shut down, together with their shitty marketing bullshit and mediocre game.
i just can't believe they still have 3 more years of development left. i totally forgot about this game until this recent alpha price drama. Hopefully something catastrophic doesn't happen and the game gets canned lol. I feel like stephen should maybe cut back on some of the more convoluted systems and just focus on getting the game shipped
paypigs.
Great points, brother. Well said.
Well said
The moment they decided to charge YOU for the privilege of finding THEIR bugs, instead of the total other way around, is where you can truly see what they think of YOU!
Asmongold at No Point said the Game should be Free.. He just ANS Steven saying " No Price point would make everyone Happy". If AOS was F2P nobody would be complaining about the price of the AOS. early backers from the Kickstarter got a bunch of cosmetics, titles housing and loot /mounts that None of the F2P players would get. The Usual for f2p games. Man Asmon's Editors are going to Crucify you.
it was only supposed to be alpha2 access from the beginning, but due to the feedback they changed it to include the other stuff, not a miscommunication
otherwise great vid 👍
Good take. This has been a great example of a communication disaster. They should have just said Ashes of Creation will be a free game, no box cost, only monthly sub. No p2w, no early access on live. Wait until release, play 100% of the game for free (with first month 15$ or whatever) BUT if you want to support us, we'll thank you by giving you alpha/beta access, and X is the price point. Same situation, completely different optics. It also feels like a very high % of the people complaining aren't the target demographics for Ashes' vision at all as well, but who knows exactly.