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Balance is a contraversial topic in MMORPGs… There’s multiple arguements for a “hyper balanced” MMO and one that is more focused around the “fun”
Today, we’ll be discussing the topic of balance and talking about some concerns for how Intrepid plan to innovate on Ashes of Creations 64 class direction.
I’m debating some changes to the format of these videos. It feels like some particular parts have outstayed their welcome and I will be experimenting with some changes over the next few months! I’m really looking forward to hearing you guys feedback 😀
Come Join the discord btw, it’s dead and needs the suck the life out of some new people: https://discord.gg/muwNp8NhbB
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I'm debating some changes to the format of these videos. It feels like some particular parts have outstayed their welcome and I will be experimenting with some changes over the next few months! I'm really looking forward to hearing you guys feedback 😀
Come Join the discord btw, it's dead and needs the suck the life out of some new people: https://discord.gg/muwNp8NhbB
A good example of class diversity is FFXI, which is largely left out of these conversations. You get a main job / sub job. This allowed a ton of various strategies to be used to tackle content. It also allowed a great amount of lateral gear progression and improving small aspects of your character. Granted, FFXI did not have PvP outside of a niche opt-in game called "Ballista", I still think they did the balancing quite well. Also, Warhammer Online at launch did a pretty good job with balancing before they utterly shit the bed with their server stability and widescale nerfing of whole specs into the ground.
Opportunity all day long!! Put in the work now and reap the rewards later on down the line. Variety is the spice of life as they say 😁👍
love this more "take it seriously" kind of video
aoc team need to bring "balance" trought various equipment, ill make an example so you understand what im talking. for example you are playing heavy hp/armor tank, so imagine yourself with a big hammer and a lot's of steel on you, you will be heavy as fuck, in order to maybe blink or something you would have to come to end game, and search/farm for an exclusive named item that gives you an abillity of blink or whaterver… you know… that would be dope, it would not just stay on 64 classes and mixmatch of all those 8 main clasess and spells, it would also made you to find your perfect equipment for perfect active/passive buffs from those items aswell…that would be dope… imagine how many builds you could have than… pff 🙂
All this Copa-Cola has gotten me fat. Damn you, Narc.
Nope, you are wrong, it's utterly painful to listen to your dumb opinions.
Balance doesn't make classes boring, and neither does class homogenization. FF14 is good to example how relatively balanced game still has engaging and fun classes/gameplay.
It's the fundamental design which is making them boring, i.e. oversimplified mechanics, or uninspiring audiovisual design.
Usually when people complain about classes being boring is when balance killed their 2IQ ez mode classes exposing ppl to the truth that they suck, and out of frustration ppl blame "balance changes" lol
I think balance depends more on your prefered activity. If you want to do primarily pve, you will need more balance in dps output, regardless of the crowdcontrol or support abilities. In pvp you might want to specialize on crowdcontrol or support instead. I hope that archtype combinations gravitate towards either pve or pvp builds, with a few niche builds that are pvx
I'm on neither extreme of "each class basically being the same" and "niche builds that don't perform well on their own, but offer something to a group". I'm right in the middle. I'd like every class to be able to do solo content competently, and at the same time, offering a way that niche builds can be valued in group play.
As long as you don't take away your final segments so the Pantheon people get reminded they're high on copium, your videos will never feel off or incomplete. Keep it up!
Honestly, so much of the old vs new school mmo argument, in my personal situation, boils down to time investment. I don’t have the regular daily 8+ hour stretches to spend exploring and really getting into the nitty gritty of classes balanced around group balance where I can risk picking the wrong class. In the same vein, that smaller time investment available also makes it harder to engage in group content because you need to not only find a group of people who play similarly, but whose limited available time window lines up with your own. At the end of the day, I’m simply going to prefer the game that I can get more value/progress out of for my time even if it’s inferior to a more fleshed out game, because I’m never going to be able to fully experience the scope of that game. It’d be cool if ashes actually figures out how to solve that, I’m just not holding my breath, and it’s very possible that ashes is simply not for players like me, that’s always a possible explanation.
One way they could stop min/max culture is to put a debuff on duplicate classes in a party. There's 64 to choose from! e.g. if the min/max happens to be a Battle Mage, if there are 2 Battle mages in the party, then they both get a 2% debuff. if 6 in the party then 6%. If you had 8 Mages, one of each augment, then no debuffs. Make max raid group 64. Would make everyone try and make a unique builds rather than copying a popular website post.
My other idea would be to use the seasons. min/max build changes depending on the season. So at least there would be 4 builds people would be running.
Totally agree. I'm so tire of classes basically having the same skills just with different names and colors. As a lifelong tank, I'm fine with taking longer to kill things as I know I can survive more things than say a rogue or mage.
I think a hybrid of class skills and weapon skills would be perfekt. Giving your class most of its abilities just by picking the class and locking in your playstyle by your choice of weapon. Kind of like guild wars 2. And it just makes sense. My attack pattern would be vastly different when using two swords compared to a greatsword for example. Even if im a "warrior" in both cases.
I dont care about balance when discussing single player. If there is something strong, use it or not. Its an option. But when where are talking about pvp games? If you remove balance, you are also removing the RPG aspect, because you dont have an option to build your build. You use the unbalanced meta or die.
Skit at beginning was good. You've been improving.
The videos pacing was nicely done.
Nice change in format. Doesn't need to be a constant. Use it when the need arises
i like the video onl ithing i dont like is when you chsnge your voice
Much better format. You do seem upset or sad, i hope you are okay.I have not been enjoying your content lately with especially your condescension and language, but this was so much better. Now you just need to keep it up and hopefully also cheer up!
Narc is frustrated cause a guys without gear beat him in new world…. Now he want revenge. This video is proof.
I am a bit worried the classes may look generic fantasy if you cant tell them apart from each other by looking at them.
8:23 thx for destroying my ears… never felt better with not hearing anything after this moment of the video
30yr old washed up dad gamer here and I can’t wait to feel 16 again logging into AOC for the first time😂😅
There is balance in imbalance.
Would much rather see dedicated support classes that lift their party up even if it costs personal DPS.
But then I'm the kind of weirdo who leveled 1 to 60 during actual vanilla WoW as a Resto druid.
I enjoy playing support roles in MMOs, but MMOs lately don't seem to enjoy making support roles.
lol! PvP killed AoC already? damn, that was quick.
8:24 wutface
As clunky as SWG from launch till New-Game-Enhancements patch was. It gave the most mix and match and in-depth professions. It had non-combatant main professions. Was the most fun I had and it was not my first mmo so it wasn't like a "blinded by the first mmo" nostalgia thing.
So to my mind having a ton of options with some limiting factors to chose, mix and match is just great.
Squareenix works very hard in their class balance, just to make every class in each role be the same as another, one of the reasons that made me quit ffXIV… I'd rather have fun with the complete inbalance chaos of GW1 than the favlorless/choiceless perfect balance of FFXIV. I think Ashes way of doing it is perfect tho, even if there is some lack of balance, it will be countered by the rock paper scissors aproach and the needs of the party for certain situations.
btw, it was a good watch Narc, didn't see much difference in format, but if you are unsure just try mixing styles depending on the seriousness of the topic.
I think I'd use the word symmetry rather than balance. Balance is very interpretive and can be attained in a wide variety of aspects. In sum, balance is always a good thing. What you don't want is symmetry, which is formulaic and depressing no matter which way you turn the picture.
I enjoy both versions of video style you make my dude. I believe the reason behind my support for you is simply because of your perspectives on the mmo genre. Very similar to my ideal mmo. Just like most here probably.
i like the jokes
I’d like to see experts in roles but I want to be able to change roles . One day I might wanna be a tank and another id want to be a dps ranger . But I do not want to need to level 64 different characters to satisfy my adhd brain and change my class every hour